San Francisco Renaming Schools

[spork]

When will we have a Donald J. Trump Middle School?

[Langue_doc]

Probably soon, in one or more of the boroughs. He has strong support from at least two separate communities neither of which believes in the virus or the need to take precautions.

[Hegemony]

Tempest in a teapot.

[dismalist]

Who owns the symbols?

[Parasaurolophus]

If you think that it is no big deal to rename schools because Lincoln et al. were racist ("racist"), you literally cannot be reasoned with, only defeated. On the other hand, I suppose the school renamers would say the same thing about me.

I don't think it's a big deal to rename schools period. Why do you think it is?

So names don't matter?

That doesn't follow from what I said. If you were being charitable, you'd conclude (correctly) that I think names matter to communities of people, and that's why it's OK for them to change the names used to designate public edifices. It's precisely because names matter that it's not a big deal when a community wants to rename something.


I grew up relatively close to a river called the 'Niger River'. Turns out it was named after a Black family that lived there, and you can guess what the river was supposed to be called. The extra letter was added in the late eighties and removed again in the the mid-aughts. The name was changed because names matter. (It would have been better to rename it entirely, of course, but there you have it. I'm not in charge of the toponymic commission.)

[dismalist]

./.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Silly, but I have can think of more important things to be outraged about

[mahagonny]

If you think that it is no big deal to rename schools because Lincoln et al. were racist ("racist"), you literally cannot be reasoned with, only defeated. On the other hand, I suppose the school renamers would say the same thing about me.

And they'd be wrong. I don't trust anyone who thinks white supremacy is permeating our culture.

[dismalist]

If you think that it is no big deal to rename schools because Lincoln et al. were racist ("racist"), you literally cannot be reasoned with, only defeated. On the other hand, I suppose the school renamers would say the same thing about me.

I don't think it's a big deal to rename schools period. Why do you think it is?

So names don't matter?

That doesn't follow from what I said. If you were being charitable, you'd conclude (correctly) that I think names matter to communities of people, and that's why it's OK for them to change the names used to designate public edifices. It's precisely because names matter that it's not a big deal when a community wants to rename something.


I grew up relatively close to a river called the 'Niger River'. Turns out it was named after a Black family that lived there, and you can guess what the river was supposed to be called. The extra letter was added in the late eighties and removed again in the the mid-aughts. The name was changed because names matter. (It would have been better to rename it entirely, of course, but there you have it. I'm not in charge of the toponymic commission.)

That might make sense: Locals should own the symbols. But what if I found sufficient local community members to rename the High School I live near from [Locale] High School to Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini High School? Would that be OK?

[mahagonny]

Silly, but I have can think of more important things to be outraged about

...than the fact that some of the people these schools were named for had noticeable flaws? Agreed. This is what is so funny about the loony left. Outrage as a pastime.

[marshwiggle]

If you think that it is no big deal to rename schools because Lincoln et al. were racist ("racist"), you literally cannot be reasoned with, only defeated. On the other hand, I suppose the school renamers would say the same thing about me.

I don't think it's a big deal to rename schools period. Why do you think it is?

So names don't matter?

That doesn't follow from what I said. If you were being charitable, you'd conclude (correctly) that I think names matter to communities of people, and that's why it's OK for them to change the names used to designate public edifices. It's precisely because names matter that it's not a big deal when a community wants to rename something.

So what amount of consensus from the "community" should be required? 50% +1? Does that only include people whose kids attend the school? With all of the recent stuff about confederate flags, is it OK as long as the majority is OK with it? If not, how many have to be "offended"?

I weary of the whole Whack-a-mole idea of every few years someone else wanting to rename the same place. Maybe they should just make jumbotron-type displays on buildings instead of signs so that each week they can change the name that displays according to how many Facebook likes it gets.

[dismalist]

So what amount of consensus from the "community" should be required? 50% +1?

The fundamental question is broader. If we had 98% consensus, I insist on asking if it's OK to rename my near High School to Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini High School? If not, why not?

[Parasaurolophus]

That might make sense: Locals should own the symbols. But what if I found sufficient local community members to rename the High School I live near from [Locale] High School to Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini High School? Would that be OK?

Yes. And no.

If that's what the community wants, then it's entirely legitimate for the community to enact its will. That's a separate issue from whether it's morally acceptable for the community to enact the change it wants to enact. Mussolini was a bad man with few redeeming features, so I don't think it's appropriate to honour him or his memory by naming public edifices after him. In the United States, where his more or less only association is with fascism, it seems especially inappropriate to do so, since it seems like doing so would also involve making a particular kind of (bad, morally wrong) perlocutionary act.

Lincoln has more going for him than Mussolini, and it doesn't seem prima facie morally wrong to have public edifices named after him. Neither does it seem morally wrong to decide to cease to associate your edifice with his name, especially since he also did some pretty morally bad things. If your school is named after MLK and your community decides it doesn't want to have its school named after someone who was Black so it decides to name it after platypuses or chicken of the woods, well, even though those new names are perfectly inoffensive, the associated perlocutionary act seems like a bad (morally wrong) one to me. If, on the other hand, the community decides to go from    MLK --­> Platypus because they think we should no longer name schools after people, that seems fine.

[Hibush]

I suppose we could just ... name it after inanimate objects like ... fungi. 

This idea has merit. Such naming supports the study of the natural sciences and helps counteract the stunning blindness most kids have of the natural world.  It is workable as long as we can keep the taxonomists from changing the name of the fungus every few years.

Here's my prediction for what would happen: Some mischevious online community ties the school board in knots by starting to use whatever name they've chosen as a euphemism for something else. "Aaardvark Elementary"? Aardvark will be used to refer to some weird sexual practice and then the board will desperately have to rename. Repeat and rinse.
When any hint of scandal is enough to get someone (on in this case, something) cancelled, the dust will never settle.

I love it. I'd start attending school board meetings just to enjoy the outrage, faux outrage, innuendo, and shibboleth testing.

To the particular example, aadrvark is an Afrikaans (oppressor) name for an African native species. That name clearly supports imperialist hegemony. The globalist name is Orycteropus. Much better. I have no doubt the second graders will say it easily, but the parents will be reduced to four letter words when they try.

[Parasaurolophus]

So what amount of consensus from the "community" should be required? 50% +1? Does that only include people whose kids attend the school? With all of the recent stuff about confederate flags, is it OK as long as the majority is OK with it? If not, how many have to be "offended"?

I weary of the whole Whack-a-mole idea of every few years someone else wanting to rename the same place. Maybe they should just make jumbotron-type displays on buildings instead of signs so that each week they can change the name that displays according to how many Facebook likes it gets.

It seems to me that the toponymic processes which already exist and are in place are doing a fine job, at least in most cases. These decisions aren't made on a whim, they're made after a great deal of public consultation and with plenty of lead time, as the original case attests (it's been three years!).