Where do Republicans go from here?

[spork]

The investigation was opened during the Trump administration. People in the Trump administration knew about it. I wonder whether Donnie was hoping to add it to his file of the dirt he has on people.

Good point.

I also wonder if this is trying to distract people from his "adopted son." Because somehow a fling with a 17 year old girl is more acceptable than with a 19 year old boy?

I thought the boy was 12 when he started living with Gaetz.

[mahagonny]

Thing is, it just ends up as a stupid tit-for-tat exchange. Someone on the right is exposed in a relationship that is considered illicit, then someone else posts about a democrat with the same problem (well, that probably wouldn't happen on this far-lefty forum, but since everybody's seeing it on the news, it might as well be). And so on.

On road trips with minors?

It's not that it's 'considered illicit'. It's that it literally satisfies the definition of sex trafficking a minor.

Which Led Zeppelin fans (which includes academics by the ton) may appreciate. Kidnapping/keeping an underage sex slave is cool too when the right people are doing it.

"At the insistence of Led Zeppelin's manager, Peter Grant, Mattix was kept in a locked hotel room with a security guard at the door during the band's subsequent U.S. touring."- wikipedia, 'Lori Mattix' entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix#cite_note-rough-5

honorary doctorate for Jimmy: https://www.dailyfreeman.com/lifestyle/jimmy-page-of-led-zeppelin-gets-honorary-doctorate-from-berklee-college-of-music/article_d34cf6ff-1b46-5985-a044-e7d52f3e03b7.html

I'm somewhat shocked by what was done but not shocked by seeing something I expect; namely, a 'gotcha' opportunity for someone who considers the perpetrator an enemy for other reasons.

[larryc]

Oh, they have already decided where to go, as we see in the wave of voter suppression laws in red states. The Republicans are the party of literal apartheid and white nationalism. Every day they get bolder in openly proclaiming it. And their 2024 presidential nominee Tucker Carlson (really!) will run on that platform.

Liberals sometimes say that the white nationalism strategy is a dead end because of changing demographics, but that is naive. Disenfranchisement in support of minority rule worked quite well in the South for generations, as it did in South Africa.

[mahagonny]

Oh, they have already decided where to go, as we see in the wave of voter suppression laws in red states. The Republicans are the party of literal apartheid and white nationalism. Every day they get bolder in openly proclaiming it. And their 2024 presidential nominee Tucker Carlson (really!) will run on that platform.

Liberals sometimes say that the white nationalism strategy is a dead end because of changing demographics, but that is naive. Disenfranchisement in support of minority rule worked quite well in the South for generations, as it did in South Africa.

Do you approve of reasonable measures to insure that votes counted are authentic? I think maintaining a legal ID document is not terribly hard work for an adult human.

TBT each party has its deplorables that the presidential candidate hopes will turn out in droves. What's more American than everyone getting to vote, including the losers.

[marshwiggle]

Oh, they have already decided where to go, as we see in the wave of voter suppression laws in red states. The Republicans are the party of literal apartheid and white nationalism. Every day they get bolder in openly proclaiming it. And their 2024 presidential nominee Tucker Carlson (really!) will run on that platform.

Liberals sometimes say that the white nationalism strategy is a dead end because of changing demographics, but that is naive. Disenfranchisement in support of minority rule worked quite well in the South for generations, as it did in South Africa.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Thing is, it just ends up as a stupid tit-for-tat exchange. Someone on the right is exposed in a relationship that is considered illicit, then someone else posts about a democrat with the same problem (well, that probably wouldn't happen on this far-lefty forum, but since everybody's seeing it on the news, it might as well be). And so on.

On road trips with minors?

It's not that it's 'considered illicit'. It's that it literally satisfies the definition of sex trafficking a minor.

Which Led Zeppelin fans (which includes academics by the ton) may appreciate. Kidnapping/keeping an underage sex slave is cool too when the right people are doing it.

"At the insistence of Led Zeppelin's manager, Peter Grant, Mattix was kept in a locked hotel room with a security guard at the door during the band's subsequent U.S. touring."- wikipedia, 'Lori Mattix' entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix#cite_note-rough-5

honorary doctorate for Jimmy: https://www.dailyfreeman.com/lifestyle/jimmy-page-of-led-zeppelin-gets-honorary-doctorate-from-berklee-college-of-music/article_d34cf6ff-1b46-5985-a044-e7d52f3e03b7.html

I'm somewhat shocked by what was done but not shocked by seeing something I expect; namely, a 'gotcha' opportunity for someone who considers the perpetrator an enemy for other reasons.

Lol at the whataboutism that Republicans have to employ when one of their rising stars is under investigation for sex trafficking: "But whatabout former Democratic president Jimmy Page!"

[mahagonny]

So we could agree that persons guilty of kidnapping, statutory rape, sex trafficking, should be held accountable to the extent provided by law? I vote yes.

[Anselm]

Thing is, it just ends up as a stupid tit-for-tat exchange. Someone on the right is exposed in a relationship that is considered illicit, then someone else posts about a democrat with the same problem (well, that probably wouldn't happen on this far-lefty forum, but since everybody's seeing it on the news, it might as well be). And so on.

On road trips with minors?

It's not that it's 'considered illicit'. It's that it literally satisfies the definition of sex trafficking a minor.

Which Led Zeppelin fans (which includes academics by the ton) may appreciate. Kidnapping/keeping an underage sex slave is cool too when the right people are doing it.

"At the insistence of Led Zeppelin's manager, Peter Grant, Mattix was kept in a locked hotel room with a security guard at the door during the band's subsequent U.S. touring."- wikipedia, 'Lori Mattix' entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix#cite_note-rough-5

honorary doctorate for Jimmy: https://www.dailyfreeman.com/lifestyle/jimmy-page-of-led-zeppelin-gets-honorary-doctorate-from-berklee-college-of-music/article_d34cf6ff-1b46-5985-a044-e7d52f3e03b7.html

I'm somewhat shocked by what was done but not shocked by seeing something I expect; namely, a 'gotcha' opportunity for someone who considers the perpetrator an enemy for other reasons.

The principal at my Catholic HS got on the intercom to address graffiti in the bathroom.  The one line I remember was her saying "...and no, Jimmy Page is not God."

[spork]

Family values:

Justice Dept. Inquiry Into Matt Gaetz Said to Be Focused on Cash Paid to Women

[mahagonny]

Well, sure. I believe I posted some time ago that I'd be amazed if Donald Trump has never paid for medically ending a pregnancy he caused or taken advantage of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and his underage sex for hire fantasy island. My heart won't bleed if Gaetz gets it for this.
My reaction:
The thing about making fun of the republican party for 'family values' identification is there are many who are trying to promote family values, and while I suppose they are more likely to vote republican (which will have its comical aspects, in light of Trump, Gaetz et al) they're still trying to do a good thing. And whereas the democratic party has so many black voters none of its leaders has the moral confidence to discuss the detriment of black communities having fewer and fewer families with a father in the home (easily supported with stats on crime rate, addiction and other stuff), nor a pair of parent figures of the same gender in a committed relationship with each other. Well, President Obama tried but then gave up and now seems to have accepted the prevailing message that everything bad that can happen to anyone is society's fault.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Texas following Georgia's lead: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/04/01/texas-voting-restrictions-legislature/

Seems pretty clear that where Republicans go from here is to do everything they can to make voting more difficult.

[spork]

Well, sure. I believe I posted some time ago that I'd be amazed if Donald Trump has never paid for medically ending a pregnancy he caused or taken advantage of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and his underage sex for hire fantasy island. My heart won't bleed if Gaetz gets it for this.
My reaction:
The thing about making fun of the republican party for 'family values' identification is there are many who are trying to promote family values, and while I suppose they are more likely to vote republican (which will have its comical aspects, in light of Trump, Gaetz et al) they're still trying to do a good thing. And whereas the democratic party has so many black voters none of its leaders has the moral confidence to discuss the detriment of black communities having fewer and fewer families with a father in the home (easily supported with stats on crime rate, addiction and other stuff), nor a pair of parent figures of the same gender in a committed relationship with each other. Well, President Obama tried but then gave up and now seems to have accepted the prevailing message that everything bad that can happen to anyone is society's fault.

I would have a lot more sympathy for the "but what about black family values" argument if the state had not incarcerated black men at disproportionately high rates for decades.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Well, sure. I believe I posted some time ago that I'd be amazed if Donald Trump has never paid for medically ending a pregnancy he caused or taken advantage of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and his underage sex for hire fantasy island. My heart won't bleed if Gaetz gets it for this.
My reaction:
The thing about making fun of the republican party for 'family values' identification is there are many who are trying to promote family values, and while I suppose they are more likely to vote republican (which will have its comical aspects, in light of Trump, Gaetz et al) they're still trying to do a good thing. And whereas the democratic party has so many black voters none of its leaders has the moral confidence to discuss the detriment of black communities having fewer and fewer families with a father in the home (easily supported with stats on crime rate, addiction and other stuff), nor a pair of parent figures of the same gender in a committed relationship with each other. Well, President Obama tried but then gave up and now seems to have accepted the prevailing message that everything bad that can happen to anyone is society's fault.

I would have a lot more sympathy for the "but what about black family values" argument if the state had not incarcerated black men at disproportionately high rates for decades.

Especially since Republican plan to "help" blacks centers on making it harder for them to vote

[mahagonny]

Is there any good faith discussion going on today between republicans and democrats about how everyone could have confidence that voting is both available enough to all who may legally vote and fraud-proof? It seems to be all just about suspicion and wresting power from the enemy.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Is there any good faith discussion going on today between republicans and democrats about how everyone could have confidence that voting is both available enough to all who may legally vote and fraud-proof? It seems to be all just about suspicion and wresting power from the enemy.

These "both sides are equally bad" frames may apply in some cases, but this isn't one of them. In this case, one side claims, with zero evidence, that there was massive vote fraud in the last election. You may recall that they actually used this evidence-free claim to try to overturn the results of the election, and with it America's democracy. They are now using the lack of voter confidence that they created through lies to make the case that we should make voting harder - especially in minority-heavy urban areas in swing states.

How can Democrats possible engage in a "good faith" argument with a party that has shown that they don't respect the results of a free and fair election? How can Democrats engage in a "good faith" argument with a party that ignores the evidence regarding voter security? How can Democrats engage in a "good faith" argument with a party that, in response to losing the election, decides to make voter suppression their top priority? They can't. If you want a good faith argument, then Republicans have to show that they are interested in having one, and so far they have done exactly the opposite.