Macron and the Scientific Institute of Islamology

[downer]

Here's a confused and even trollish piece from the NYT yesterday: the subtitle is more informative that the title.
Politicians and prominent intellectuals say social theories from the United States on race, gender and post-colonialism are a threat to French identity and the French republic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html

I hesitate to post it since these threads tend to get dominated by Statler and Waldorf. But maybe some useful useful discussion is possible.

It is interesting to read the words of Macron from the linked speech.

With respect to the secular and intellectual dimension, the government should also make a commitment. It should commit to and support efforts in our country aimed at promoting a better understanding of Islam in our country and improved intellectual, academic training for all religious authorities as well as all of our citizens who take an interest in this religion, this civilization in order to understand each other better because it is of critical importance to us. To that end, we will contribute €10 million to support initiatives by the Foundation for Islam in France in the areas of culture, history and science. I am thinking in particular of the development of advanced Islamic university studies. I have also decided to create a Scientific Institute of Islamology, and to support the law on higher education and research, we will create additional posts in higher education in order to continue, or resume, research into Muslim civilizations and the Maghreb, the Mediterranean basin, Africa.

Many of these topics in which France used to excel academically have been undermined and we have abandoned them. And in so doing, we have left the intellectual debate to others, to those outside of the Republic by ideologizing it, sometimes yielding to other academic traditions. I am thinking of Anglo-Saxon traditions based on a different history, which is not ours. And when I see certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States, with their problems, which I respect and which exist, but which are just added to ours, I say to myself that it is reasonable to make this choice. And so we must, very clearly, re-invest, on a massive scale, in the field of social sciences, history, understanding of civilizations by creating posts, by stepping up dialogue, academic and scientific debate in order not to allow the knowledge, the understanding of Islam as a religion, of the civilization it underpins and its contribution to our country and our continent to become ideological and exclusively political debates.

The news in the piece is really from last October, about the creation of the Scientific Institute of Islamology. The NYT piece says that Macron is playing to the right in his action, but this seems to me a strange way of doing it.

[Katrina Gulliver]

I hesitate to post it since these threads tend to get dominated by Statler and Waldorf.

genuine LOL

[marshwiggle]

I hesitate to post it since these threads tend to get dominated by Statler and Waldorf. But maybe some useful useful discussion is possible.

I have also decided to create a Scientific Institute of Islamology, and to support the law on higher education and research, we will create additional posts in higher education in order to continue, or resume, research into Muslim civilizations and the Maghreb, the Mediterranean basin, Africa.

The news in the piece is really from last October, about the creation of the Scientific Institute of Islamology. The NYT piece says that Macron is playing to the right in his action, but this seems to me a strange way of doing it.

I can't for the life of me imagine what is meant by a "Scientific Institute of Islamology". What would a "Scientific Institute of Christology" or whatever other "ology" you want to use mean? Is it to investigate religious claims scientifically? Or is it to make religious studies sound more objectively rigorous?


And I don't know whether I'm Statler or Waldorf.

[mamselle]

There's already an Islamic/Arabic history museum in Paris; I've wanted to visit it but my last two trips were split up over libraries in three other towns whose opening/closing patterns made it hard to do anything else.

And of course, this year....well...humph.

I wonder if this will be a more closed/researchers-only institute like the CNRS groups tend to be, or if it will have an outwardly-faced public manifestation as well.

That wonderful former Trades and Crafts museum site in the Bois de Boulogne has not yet been filled, that would do very well.

M.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

I can't for the life of me imagine what is meant by a "Scientific Institute of Islamology". What would a "Scientific Institute of Christology" or whatever other "ology" you want to use mean? Is it to investigate religious claims scientifically? Or is it to make religious studies sound more objectively rigorous?

Looks like a translation issue. For another institution:
Institut pontifical d'études arabes et d'islamologie => Pontifical Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies

[Parasaurolophus]

I can't for the life of me imagine what is meant by a "Scientific Institute of Islamology". What would a "Scientific Institute of Christology" or whatever other "ology" you want to use mean? Is it to investigate religious claims scientifically? Or is it to make religious studies sound more objectively rigorous?

Looks like a translation issue. For another institution:
Institut pontifical d'études arabes et d'islamologie => Pontifical Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies

Yes. Also: sciences humaines = humanities

[spork]

Maybe Sciences Po should be renamed Institute de Pédophilie.

[Hibush]

I can't for the life of me imagine what is meant by a "Scientific Institute of Islamology". What would a "Scientific Institute of Christology" or whatever other "ology" you want to use mean? Is it to investigate religious claims scientifically? Or is it to make religious studies sound more objectively rigorous?

Looks like a translation issue. For another institution:
Institut pontifical d'études arabes et d'islamologie => Pontifical Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies

Why does the Latinate "Islamology" sound vaguely sinister, and the English "Islamic Studies" unremarkable? They are literally synonymous terms.

[marshwiggle]

I can't for the life of me imagine what is meant by a "Scientific Institute of Islamology". What would a "Scientific Institute of Christology" or whatever other "ology" you want to use mean? Is it to investigate religious claims scientifically? Or is it to make religious studies sound more objectively rigorous?

Looks like a translation issue. For another institution:
Institut pontifical d'études arabes et d'islamologie => Pontifical Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies

Why does the Latinate "Islamology" sound vaguely sinister, and the English "Islamic Studies" unremarkable? They are literally synonymous terms.

And why would you voluntarily call something "pontifical"?

pon·tif·i·cal
adjective
1.
(in the Roman Catholic Church) relating to the Pope.
"a pontifical commission"
2.
characterized by a pompous and superior air of infallibility.

Not to deny lots of academics may actually have that attitude, but how many would admit to it?

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

And why would you voluntarily call something "pontifical"?

pon·tif·i·cal
adjective
1.
(in the Roman Catholic Church) relating to the Pope.
"a pontifical commission"
2.
characterized by a pompous and superior air of infallibility.

Not to deny lots of academics may actually have that attitude, but how many would admit to it?

I. The institute in question is directly connected to the Catholic Church
2. Same words have very different connotations in different languages. Understanding this variation and its sources can be a valuable in many fields. I wonder whether negative meaning of "pontifical" was invented to further Anti-Catholic sentiment alongside derogatory terms like "Papists".

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

Why does the Latinate "Islamology" sound vaguely sinister, and the English "Islamic Studies" unremarkable? They are literally synonymous terms.

Subconscious Dungeons&Dragons reference? Demonology etc
I suspect sinister feeling is not present (or intended) in the original French.

[mamselle]

Same here. I wouldn't have read it that way, at least.

Technically, "pontifical" means having a specific tie to the church through a papal form of initiation or institutional connection.

The "Pontifical College Josephinium" in Columbus, Ohio, is basically just a seminary, but its stance and placement in the church is identified by its name.

In this case, the title may also convey papal approval/interest/investment in an interfaith/intercultural study, which under the present pope is neither surprising nor at all menacing (well, maybe to some very conservative RCs holdovers, but otherwise, not).

In fact, it's kinda cool.

M. 

[marshwiggle]

And why would you voluntarily call something "pontifical"?

pon·tif·i·cal
adjective
1.
(in the Roman Catholic Church) relating to the Pope.
"a pontifical commission"
2.
characterized by a pompous and superior air of infallibility.

Not to deny lots of academics may actually have that attitude, but how many would admit to it?

I. The institute in question is directly connected to the Catholic Church

Technically, "pontifical" means having a specific tie to the church through a papal form of initiation or institutional connection.

OK, so it makes perfect sense that a seminary or other institution with sanction from a religious body would have institutes dedicated to the study of other religions.

What is still not clear is why a secular government would create an institution dedicated to the study of a specific religion and/or religious community. It seems either sinister or sycophantic. It's virtually impossible to conceive it as sufficiently neutral and objective to engender open-minded inquiry.

[mamselle]

Have you ever lived or worked in France?

M.

[marshwiggle]

Have you ever lived or worked in France?

M.

No, but I have visited relatives there. I know there is a large north african immigrant population, and there are ongoing social tensions around that. But that just goes back to my point: Creating an "Institute" sounds like either pandering to that community or trying to keep a critical eye on them. Either way it's troubling.