Shutting down a grad program

[arty_]

My department offers two graduate degrees - one discipline has a functional graduate program with functional faculty, and they graduate a few good students each year.

The other discipline with a grad program has non-functional senior faculty, several extremely junior faculty, and houses the under-performing graduate program (very low number of applicants, very under-prepared applicants selected so the program can exist in some fashion,  few enough enrolled students that the university is raising red flags, very little oversight of the grad students). The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.
The problem is that our formerly excellent undergrad program is suffering because of the grad program -- underprepared grad assistants are teaching awfully, the faculty are distracted by the grads and not as invested in the undergrads.

But the tenured faculty cannot, and will not get their acts together to properly supervise who's here, or target enrollment, or even put together or follow a functional degree plan.

Faculty in this discipline are very hard to hire-- they make more money as practitioners. As Chair, I want to pull the plug on this program, and am doing everything methodically and appropriately: meeting with the faculty, providing structure and goals that need to be met for success, meeting with the deans to discuss the problems, meeting with the faculty and the deans together, etc. .etc.

I will step down as head in a year and a half, and my view is: let me leave the department better than I found it, and get rid of this albatross. Other than the faculty in the discipline being disgruntled with me for the rest of my career as a faculty member here, am I missing anything? Does the perceived prestige of the grad program trump its crappy outcomes? Does it reflect badly on the dept to tank an under or non performing grad program, enough so that I ought to keep it?

(landgrant R1)

[marshwiggle]

The other discipline with a grad program has non-functional senior faculty, several extremely junior faculty, and houses the under-performing graduate program (very low number of applicants, very under-prepared applicants selected so the program can exist in some fashion,  few enough enrolled students that the university is raising red flags, very little oversight of the grad students). The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.


I will step down as head in a year and a half, and my view is: let me leave the department better than I found it, and get rid of this albatross. Other than the faculty in the discipline being disgruntled with me for the rest of my career as a faculty member here, am I missing anything? Does the perceived prestige of the grad program trump its crappy outcomes? Does it reflect badly on the dept to tank an under or non performing grad program, enough so that I ought to keep it?

(landgrant R1)

If there's any "perceived prestige" now, that can't last once the graduates get into the workforce if they are as you describe.

[spork]

[. . .]

The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.

our formerly excellent undergrad program is suffering because of the grad program -- underprepared grad assistants are teaching awfully, the faculty are distracted by the grads and not as invested in the undergrads.

But the tenured faculty cannot, and will not get their acts together to properly supervise who's here, or target enrollment, or even put together or follow a functional degree plan.

[. . .]

Do you have tenure?

Are relevant administrators who look favorably upon elimination of the non-functional grad program likely to remain in their positions until you are done being department chair?

If the answer to the previous two questions is "yes," then present the bolded items to administrators, with supporting evidence, in the form of a "strengthen functional grad program and undergrad program to build the university's reputation in the market and increase revenue" plan.

I recently heard from an old friend in a tenured humanities position at a land grant R1. In five years, the number of the department's undergraduate majors decreased by 50%. Word from above is that retiring faculty will not be replaced. The existence of an MA and a PhD program in the department are not regarded as relevant to amount of resources allocated by the university to the department.

[Hibush]

This is a situation where your Associate Deans can come in handy. The relevant deanlet probably doesn't like this festering grad program either. They may be able to work with you to develop new criteria that the program has to meet or some critical resource (e.g. assistantships) gets redirected. (These are difficult financial times, and all that.) The administrator takes the blame, you look as if you helped the faculty meet the criteria but were ultimately unsuccessful.

[sonoamused]

Not a program I am involved with, but this is similar to a program at our univ that got shut down a few years ago; and the final push to do it  was when we had to recertify everyting through our State Ed Department as part of a regular process.   The Provost stepped forward and said they thought the poor results of the program, number of classes taught by GAs, etc would cause too much work during the process and possibly lead to too many issues getting it through.

...I don't think it was true (knowing what I know about the recert process), but it was a good excuse.

[dismalist]

Sorry for lateness. I don't understand this

The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.

[Mobius]

Sorry for lateness. I don't understand this

The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.

Some universities offer lower teaching loads if you teach graduate courses, or you get a course release after teaching so many graduate sections. Teaching graduate students can be easier in many ways, as well, as far as grading, as there are usually fewer grad students in a class compared to an undergrad class. You usually aren't making the same comments as you would for students in an intro level class, or dealing with students who can't follow basic instructions. YMMV depending on the quality of the grad program.

[dismalist]

Sorry for lateness. I don't understand this

The faculty don't want it to go away because of course it would raise their teaching load.

Some universities offer lower teaching loads if you teach graduate courses, or you get a course release after teaching so many graduate sections. Teaching graduate students can be easier in many ways, as well, as far as grading, as there are usually fewer grad students in a class compared to an undergrad class. You usually aren't making the same comments as you would for students in an intro level class, or dealing with students who can't follow basic instructions. YMMV depending on the quality of the grad program.

All the more reason to kill the failing program.

[inframarginal_externality]

The only thing I would add is that if your institution is an R1 or R2, check with your Research Office about how that program fits into the institution's R1 or R2 status. Even a few graduates can be really important for R1 or R2 status depending on the institution's overall mix. (This, of course, presumes you are talking about doctoral education.)

[Kron3007]

I'm surprised you would be able to make this decision at the department level. Wouldn't you need to bring in the dean or someone from higher up the chain?  Even if this is not required, I would think it appropriate to see how the decision fits in with the university plan and to help spread some of the blame/credit (depending on your point of view) around.

[arty_]

The grad program is already on notice by the Board of Regents for not graduating enough people. If I did nothing, and this process will take 5-7 years before it's likely death.  The issue is, that is a lot of time for harm to the functional undergrad program.

[Cheerful]

Teaching grad students....You usually aren't making the same comments as you would for students in an intro level class, or dealing with students who can't follow basic instructions.

You'd be surprised....

YMMV depending on the quality of the grad program.

Also depends on admin pressure to meet ever-increasing enrollment "targets" and extent of grade inflation enjoyed by Grad School applicants.