Goodbye, Cruel Fora

[ergative]

(Yes, I'll regret throwing this corpse in the piranha pool, but the swirling fins are so delightful . .  .)

Regarding the implication that calling WP a troll was some sort of undeserved bullying: He did, in fact, confirm it himself.

Comma-Luh

What are you trying to do here? Do you actually want to engage in discussion, or are you just trolling?

Why can't both be true?

[marshwiggle]

Regarding the implication that calling WP a troll was some sort of undeserved bullying: He did, in fact, confirm it himself.

On kind of a side note, I wonder how much of that is embracing a label created by someone else? For instance, I've never done anything that I would consider intentional "trolling", but when I've taken unpopular positions on certain things I have been accused of not acting in "good faith". Like calling certain language a "dog whistle", it seems to be a way to dismiss someone else's argument without actually having to  address any of its points.

So if someone called me a troll for making an unpopular argument, I wouldn't necessarily fight the label if the implication were that I had to abandon my position to "prove" my "good faith".

[mahagonny]

Regarding the implication that calling WP a troll was some sort of undeserved bullying: He did, in fact, confirm it himself.

On kind of a side note, I wonder how much of that is embracing a label created by someone else? For instance, I've never done anything that I would consider intentional "trolling", but when I've taken unpopular positions on certain things I have been accused of not acting in "good faith". Like calling certain language a "dog whistle", it seems to be a way to dismiss someone else's argument without actually having to  address any of its points.

So if someone called me a troll for making an unpopular argument, I wouldn't necessarily fight the label if the implication were that I had to abandon my position to "prove" my "good faith".

By the time ergative's post happened Writingprof had been called a troll for months, so denying it would have only give life to the debate. And as I posted earlier I think Writingprof affected a minimally engaged persona anyway. So being called a troll would not have ruined his weekend in any event.

[Descartes]

It is true that the "troll" term is bandied about for daring to question orthodoxy.  True trolling, in its purest form, is what appears on most comments sections of press articles; i.e. "Everybody knows most blacks are criminals," or "Men wearing dresses aren't women anymore than I'm a car when I sit in my garage." 

I've never (or perhaps only once or twice?) seen actual trolling such as that on this fora or its predecessor.  Someone else pointed this out when the other one was winding down.  It does seem that the label gets applied to anyone who questions the popular groupthink. 

I would posit that the overuse of the label runs the same risks that overusing the labels of racism, sexism, or other ism's at any perceived slight; namely, that the time will arrive when the label can't be taken seriously any longer because it's simply a knee jerk taunt hurled at someone whom one does not wish to debate.

[mahagonny]

It is true that the "troll" term is bandied about for daring to question orthodoxy.  True trolling, in its purest form, is what appears on most comments sections of press articles; i.e. "Everybody knows most blacks are criminals," or "Men wearing dresses aren't women anymore than I'm a car when I sit in my garage." 

I've never (or perhaps only once or twice?) seen actual trolling such as that on this fora or its predecessor.  Someone else pointed this out when the other one was winding down.  It does seem that the label gets applied to anyone who questions the popular groupthink. 

I would posit that the overuse of the label runs the same risks that overusing the labels of racism, sexism, or other ism's at any perceived slight; namely, that the time will arrive when the label can't be taken seriously any longer because it's simply a knee jerk taunt hurled at someone whom one does not wish to debate.

Or the overuse of the label is encouraged for the group thinking majority, followed by a ritual of public humiliation and shaming.

"The last straw came in January 2020, when I attended a mandatory Residence Life staff retreat focused on racial issues. The hired facilitators asked each member of the department to respond to various personal questions about race and racial identity. When it was my turn to respond, I said, "I don't feel comfortable talking about that." I was the only person in the room to abstain.

Later, the facilitators told everyone present that a white person's discomfort at discussing their race is a symptom of "white fragility." They said that the white person may seem like they are in distress, but that it is actually a "power play." In other words, because I am white, my genuine discomfort was framed as an act of aggression. I was shamed and humiliated in front of all of my colleagues. "

https://nypost.com/2021/02/25/toxic-wokeness-taints-a-campus-and-causes-liberal-staffer-to-resign/

[mahagonny]

I see why you gave up.

[nebo113]

I see why you gave up.

Maybe you should, too, though you do provide a certain amusement value on slow days.

[mahagonny]

As you wish, friend.

[nebo113]

As you wish, friend.

Referring to me as "friend" is presumptuous.  But then, presumption is your calling card.

[mahagonny]

As you wish, friend.

Referring to me as "friend" is presumptuous.  But then, presumption is your calling card.

Right, we are not friends. So why would I want your advice? Duh

[nebo113]

As you wish, friend.

Referring to me as "friend" is presumptuous.  But then, presumption is your calling card.

Right, we are not friends. So why would I want your advice? Duh

Oh goody.  I'll give you the last word.  TeeHee.

[Caracal]

It is true that the "troll" term is bandied about for daring to question orthodoxy.  True trolling, in its purest form, is what appears on most comments sections of press articles; i.e. "Everybody knows most blacks are criminals," or "Men wearing dresses aren't women anymore than I'm a car when I sit in my garage." 

I've never (or perhaps only once or twice?) seen actual trolling such as that on this fora or its predecessor.  Someone else pointed this out when the other one was winding down.  It does seem that the label gets applied to anyone who questions the popular groupthink. 

I would posit that the overuse of the label runs the same risks that overusing the labels of racism, sexism, or other ism's at any perceived slight; namely, that the time will arrive when the label can't be taken seriously any longer because it's simply a knee jerk taunt hurled at someone whom one does not wish to debate.

Its a weird term. The idea of a troll is someone whose primary motivation is to provoke a reaction. I think because of that, sometimes people apply that label to people whose posts infuriate them. That doesn't really make someone a troll if the person is expressing sincerely held beliefs. The person might be annoying or tiresome and their ideas might be stupid or offensive, but it's not trolling.

The behavior problems on here don't involve a lot of trolling, there are a lot of other ways to behave poorly...

[lightning]

WP will be back in disguise, if he/she doesn't already remain as an alt that was here all along while the character of WP was still active.

[marshwiggle]

WP will be back in disguise, if he/she doesn't already remain as an alt that was here all along while the character of WP was still active.

How common do you think this is? Is it something you think is done by people with unpopular viewpoints? Is it something done by people with bad motives and immoral principles? Do you think this is what most people who say they are leaving do?


(Anyone know of any research regarding how common this is in online communication?)

[mahagonny]

My main regret now is that I do not know who Writingprof is in real life, so I cannot look for his publications or study with him. But I once had a teacher who said 'if you spend $20 on book and there's only one sentence in it that brings your craft forward, it was a great purchase.' (This was 1972 dollars, so figure, like $100 today).
Ergo, this is a great forum! And BTW maybe I'll do WP from now on. I don't have his erudition, but once I get going, I can be a real shithead.