Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[spork]

Any insight into why cut chemistry as a major? It seems they have one large science department (biology, chemistry, physics, etc. in one department)? They still have a biology major that requires four semesters of chemistry. Pre-health tracks require 1-5 chemistry courses. They also have a biochemistry major that requires 7 chemistry courses in addition to biochemistry. They have a forensics programs that requires at minimum 6 chemistry courses and has a track that requires 3 more semesters of chemistry. They have only 4 tenure line chemistry faculty in that large department. One is organic, so teaches organic chemistry for pre-health, biology, biochemistry, and forensic students. They have a biochemist who likely teaches biochemistry for pre-health, biology, and biochemistry as well as some of the forensic students. Analytical chemist for the analytical courses for forensic students as well as forensic courses. The last is a physical chemist who also teaches inorganic and general chemistry. Biochemistry major at Saint Rose requires two semesters of Physical as does the chemistry track in forensics. Inorganic class cut (no lab) likely but the physical chemist teaching general chemistry and physical chemistry would likely be a full load. The savings then would be fewer adjuncts for general chemistry and focus on   retention in general chemistry to strengthen pre-health, biology, biochemistry, and forensics?

IPEDS shows 0 to 3 bachelor's degrees in chemistry awarded per year going back to 2010.

Not sure what you mean by "pre-health," but the courses needed for other programs probably can be taught by adjuncts. Nursing majors have to take a "chemistry for health" course. It looks like the Saint Rose BSN relies on ADN students coming from some other institution, so it's possible that many of the students are picking it up elsewhere and transferring the credits. Biology majors take two semesters of general chemistry and two semesters of organic chemistry, plus labs. This is pretty standard for biology majors in the USA, and most likely anyone capable of eventually obtaining an MD or a DVM is not attending Saint Rose.

[whynotbc]

IPEDS shows 0 to 3 bachelor's degrees in chemistry awarded per year going back to 2010.

Not sure what you mean by "pre-health," but the courses needed for other programs probably can be taught by adjuncts. Nursing majors have to take a "chemistry for health" course. It looks like the Saint Rose BSN relies on ADN students coming from some other institution, so it's possible that many of the students are picking it up elsewhere and transferring the credits. Biology majors take two semesters of general chemistry and two semesters of organic chemistry, plus labs. This is pretty standard for biology majors in the USA, and most likely anyone capable of eventually obtaining an MD or a DVM is not attending Saint Rose.

But why keep the biochemistry and forensic majors then? They are also small majors. Given their requirements at the College of Saint Rose, to support those two majors the instiution basically offers a chemistry major except for an inorganic chemistry course that doesn't have a lab (3 credits) and a synthesis course (2 credits).  I am guessing as is they don't offer those two courses every year but alternate.  The latter two are required for the chemical track in forensics.

They may not have students who apply to med/vet/dentals schools but they are at least keeping up the appearance of a pre-med/vet/dental program to attract those with dreams (or parents with dreams).

Makes one wonder if they are also planning on altering their biology, biochemistry, and forensics majors. More and more undergrad biology majors are dropping organic especially for evolution & ecology tracks. Biochemistry major could shift to more overlap with biology and same with forensics by dropping the chemistry track. Without that not clear they are gaining much.

[polly_mer]

When I was doing institutional research related to chemistry programs, I picked up some interesting information that may be relevant here.

1) Almost no one decides to major in chemistry fresh out of high school.  Those who do generally are getting excellent advice on programs and would not pick some place like St.Rose.

2) However, many people who know almost nothing about the realities of being a scientist will seize on a flashy major like biochemistry or forensic science.  Those folks will enroll somewhere like St. Rose and then change majors to something more aligned with their interests like psychology or business.  Thus, while there's almost no graduates every year, keeping the majors as a recruiting tool is a very good idea.

3) The minimum requirement to be an ACS-accredited program is 4 full-time faculty members. Super Dinky was able to officially offer some upper-division courses by partnering with a regional coalition such that multiple institutions sent all their students to one course that then had enough students to run the course.  In some of the off years, Super Dinky would call up our closest neighbor chemistry program and establish how to combine to offer one joint course for the 8-10 total students of whom only 1-3 students were SD students.  Thus, while Super Dinky technically had a chemistry major, most of the courses were not taught at Super Dinky by Super Dinky full-time faculty.

Combined with the recruiting information, I can absolutely believe that cutting the chemistry major makes sense while keeping biochemistry and forensic science is more about recruitment.  Some fancy footwork might be required if a cohort of students got to the upper-division chemistry courses, but one can look at patterns and project.

One "fun" part of being hired to teach chemistry and then doing the institutional research was being able to see just how many years in a row large declared cohorts in chemistry and pre-med somehow evaporated before getting to the organic chemistry course.  The nursing cohort always filled the special nursing chemistry and microbiology.  The premed/chemistry cohorts that had to get through general chemistry before enrolling in organic chemistry never made the official 10 enrollment.  We ran Organic I as the second year alternate with 6 a couple times.  When someone got to Organic II, generally it was independent study or a special arrangement with another institution.  I never did get to teach the Physical Chemistry I course I was told would be part of my load.

[whynotbc]

When I was doing institutional research related to chemistry programs, I picked up some interesting information that may be relevant here.

1) Almost no one decides to major in chemistry fresh out of high school.  Those who do generally are getting excellent advice on programs and would not pick some place like St.Rose.

2) However, many people who know almost nothing about the realities of being a scientist will seize on a flashy major like biochemistry or forensic science.  Those folks will enroll somewhere like St. Rose and then change majors to something more aligned with their interests like psychology or business.  Thus, while there's almost no graduates every year, keeping the majors as a recruiting tool is a very good idea.

3) The minimum requirement to be an ACS-accredited program is 4 full-time faculty members. Super Dinky was able to officially offer some upper-division courses by partnering with a regional coalition such that multiple institutions sent all their students to one course that then had enough students to run the course.  In some of the off years, Super Dinky would call up our closest neighbor chemistry program and establish how to combine to offer one joint course for the 8-10 total students of whom only 1-3 students were SD students.  Thus, while Super Dinky technically had a chemistry major, most of the courses were not taught at Super Dinky by Super Dinky full-time faculty.

Combined with the recruiting information, I can absolutely believe that cutting the chemistry major makes sense while keeping biochemistry and forensic science is more about recruitment.  Some fancy footwork might be required if a cohort of students got to the upper-division chemistry courses, but one can look at patterns and project.

One "fun" part of being hired to teach chemistry and then doing the institutional research was being able to see just how many years in a row large declared cohorts in chemistry and pre-med somehow evaporated before getting to the organic chemistry course.  The nursing cohort always filled the special nursing chemistry and microbiology.  The premed/chemistry cohorts that had to get through general chemistry before enrolling in organic chemistry never made the official 10 enrollment.  We ran Organic I as the second year alternate with 6 a couple times.  When someone got to Organic II, generally it was independent study or a special arrangement with another institution.  I never did get to teach the Physical Chemistry I course I was told would be part of my load.

I don't think Saint Rose is ACS certified as is. Maybe they were trying and have given up. They appear to get 25-30 student through Organic II each year given biology, biochemistry, and forensics majors all need to complete it along with the couple of chemistry majors each year.

Still for them to fully realize their savings they will need to change their biochemistry and forensics programs. They seem to have structured them to prop up a chemistry major. Biochemistry majors at many places only take one semester of physical chemistry not two. Without a chemistry major, the one semester can be more focused, a biophysical chemistry course offered every other year. Replace the second semester of physical chemistry in the biochemistry major with an elective from the offerings for the biology and forensics majors. For the forsensics have the two semesters of biochemistry and the biophysical chemistry course be for the chemistry track.

[spork]

For a long time departments at many of these tiny colleges have been able, because of a lack of sound management, to engage in wishful thinking and fill tenure-track faculty positions in areas for which there little to no student demand. Now these institutions have to bear the financial consequences of that behavior.

As I alluded to upthread, according to College Scorecard, average price of attendance at SUNY-Albany is $17,000. For College of Saint Rose, it's $22,000. SUNY-Albany is listed as having 52 chemistry bachelor's degree graduates.  For Saint Rose, College Scorecard says "Data Not Available," so probably the number is in the range of zero as I mentioned earlier.

It doesn't matter if a program is certified or how its curriculum is organized if there aren't any students in it.

[polly_mer]

It doesn't matter if a program is certified or how its curriculum is organized if there aren't any students in it.

If a program is trying to maintain accreditation, then those are resources required, regardless of how many students.

I agree that forcing everyone to take Organic II and PChem II seems like a bad plan if the goal is to be competitive for the students who do their research and know what's typical.  Ensuring that the one section is full every time is a problem if the goal is retaining students who know they have other choices; the US is certainly not short on biology programs.

Not being accredited is a big negative for students who know what's important in a program.  Thus, cutting a chemistry major that isn't accredited still seems like a good plan, especially if the other programs will be modified to be more in line with peer institutions.

[Parasaurolophus]

The University of Evansville announced two days ago that it's going to be doing some weeding:

• Music, Philosophy & Religion, and Electrical Engineering & Computer Science will have their departments eliminated entirely.
• Seventeen (!) majors will be eliminated: Cognitive Science, Computer Engineering, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Ethics and Social Change, Music, Music Education, Music Performance, Music Therapy, Philosophy, Religion, Software Engineering, Art History, History, Physics, Political Science, and Spanish.
• A pile of tenured and TT faculty across these departments will have their positions eliminated.

Faculty will have to provide an initial response by Dec. 15 (so: four days after the announcement was made), and will have a total of 30 days to review the plan, which the university wants to finalize in early 2021.


Note that no admin will be cut, nor will the school's D1 sports program. (They have 2500 students, by the way.)

[dr_codex]

The University of Evansville announced two days ago that it's going to be doing some weeding:

• Music, Philosophy & Religion, and Electrical Engineering & Computer Science will have their departments eliminated entirely.
• Seventeen (!) majors will be eliminated: Cognitive Science, Computer Engineering, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Ethics and Social Change, Music, Music Education, Music Performance, Music Therapy, Philosophy, Religion, Software Engineering, Art History, History, Physics, Political Science, and Spanish.
• A pile of tenured and TT faculty across these departments will have their positions eliminated.

Faculty will have to provide an initial response by Dec. 15 (so: four days after the announcement was made), and will have a total of 30 days to review the plan, which the university wants to finalize in early 2021.


Note that no admin will be cut, nor will the school's D1 sports program. (They have 2500 students, by the way.)

Presumably, the reduction of 4 colleges and schools into 3 will result in some admin and stuff reductions? You've gotta figure that one of the Deans will be gone.

I'm with you on the sports.

[Hibush]

The University of Evansville announced two days ago that it's going to be doing some weeding:

• Music, Philosophy & Religion, and Electrical Engineering & Computer Science will have their departments eliminated entirely.
• Seventeen (!) majors will be eliminated: Cognitive Science, Computer Engineering, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Ethics and Social Change, Music, Music Education, Music Performance, Music Therapy, Philosophy, Religion, Software Engineering, Art History, History, Physics, Political Science, and Spanish.
• A pile of tenured and TT faculty across these departments will have their positions eliminated.

Faculty will have to provide an initial response by Dec. 15 (so: four days after the announcement was made), and will have a total of 30 days to review the plan, which the university wants to finalize in early 2021.


Note that no admin will be cut, nor will the school's D1 sports program. (They have 2500 students, by the way.)

Presumably, the reduction of 4 colleges and schools into 3 will result in some admin and stuff reductions? You've gotta figure that one of the Deans will be gone.

I'm with you on the sports.

They are merging the engineering and business colleges (deleting computer science). How do those complement one another. Perhaps they will develop a strong financial engineering program? They already have an odd combination in a college of education and health science.

[Hegemony]

For some reason I know a lot of people who attended the University of Evansville, and they are in great consternation at all of this. And the fact that nothing about sports has been cut has not escaped their attention. Having now read a lot more details about the cuts, it looks to me as if the university is in the direst of dire straits, and I would not be surprised if this were the last stage before the end.

[Parasaurolophus]

Presumably, the reduction of 4 colleges and schools into 3 will result in some admin and stuff reductions?

Shrug. It's not in the plan, anyway.

[spork]

For some reason I know a lot of people who attended the University of Evansville, and they are in great consternation at all of this. And the fact that nothing about sports has been cut has not escaped their attention. Having now read a lot more details about the cuts, it looks to me as if the university is in the direst of dire straits, and I would not be surprised if this were the last stage before the end.

According to its Form 990s, Evansville received $44 million in contributions in FY 2013, which allowed net revenue of ~ $35 million on total expenses of $104 million. In other words, without the contributions, it would have been ~ $9 million short. Despite that $35 million windfall for FY 2013, it was in deficit in FYs 2015 and 2016. To me that's a sign that Evansville is not financially sustainable.

[dr_codex]

Presumably, the reduction of 4 colleges and schools into 3 will result in some admin and stuff reductions?

Shrug. It's not in the plan, anyway.

Ok, but why else would you bother? As a branding exercise? If it isn't a cost saver, what else might motivate such a move?

I have reasons for asking that apply not just to this case. If it's not appropriate for this thread, I'll start another.

[polly_mer]

Presumably, the reduction of 4 colleges and schools into 3 will result in some admin and stuff reductions?

Shrug. It's not in the plan, anyway.

Ok, but why else would you bother? As a branding exercise? If it isn't a cost saver, what else might motivate such a move?

The pragmatic reason for a reorg is putting new people into positions of decision-making and implementation.

Change is hard.  Change is impossible when the people tasked with implementing the changes undermine all the necessary actions, even if only by dragging their feet and waiting out the current "fad".  You can't usually just ditch deans/chairs/program directors by stating they are holding up progress.  You can, though, eliminate all the current positions, redistribute the duties, and then put new people into the new positions that have similar responsibilities.

By putting new people in charge who are handpicked for their eagerness to make the necessary changes and do something different, the institution has a shot at the changes occurring fast enough to make a difference.  A plan that no one is working to implement is a useless plan.  A plan that has several champions shepherding it every day to make progress has a shot at success.

Something weird has happened to eliminate EE and computer engineering because those are nationally very popular majors, but they are expensive to run well and might have problems getting new faculty to a small college.  However, I'm surprised that University of Evansville has any engineering programs at its size because of the expense to stay current that requires substantial scale and the desire of most engineering professors to do consulting/research, not just teaching.

[polly_mer]

For some reason I know a lot of people who attended the University of Evansville, and they are in great consternation at all of this. And the fact that nothing about sports has been cut has not escaped their attention. Having now read a lot more details about the cuts, it looks to me as if the university is in the direst of dire straits, and I would not be surprised if this were the last stage before the end.

The timeline of 18 months notice to affected faculty doesn't indicate direst of dire straits.

The programs being chosen do seem to be a realignment of needs based on demographics projected for the next five to ten years.

Participating in athletics at UE is a draw.  250 student-athletes on a student population of 2000 is a noticeable fraction (https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-evansville/student-life/sports/).  Head coaches of male teams only making $55k (ibid) and head coaches of female teams only making $37k (ibid) is a pretty good deal.

College scorecard shows very few recent graduates in the programs proposed for cuts. 

Physics has 4 graduates while mechanical engineering is number 3 in annual graduates at 29.  ME needs some physics classes, but not all the ones necessary for a physics degree.  One reason that EE and computer engineering may be on the chopping block is the dramatic drop in foreign nationals coming to the US for undergrad STEM degrees.  If UE had been relying on international students to prop up the program and were experiencing the decline even before COVID, then cutting those programs as unworkable would make sense.

Music has 4 recent graduates,
philosophy has 4 recent graduates,
cognitive science (expensive to run if done correctly) has 6 recent graduates,
English and literature has 4 recent graduates

Those four programs combined have fewer graduates than any one of the top five programs.  Doubling down on the top ten programs to have them grow is a smarter strategy than clinging to the past by diluting resources.

The direst of dire financial straits is cutting today for spring or cutting now for fall.  Announcing cuts that will take effect in two years is called strategic planning.