Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[selecter]

I miss Polly. I miss Super Dinky, too. My own (former) Super Dinky has recently added a faddish bonanza sport, and had their largest first-year class in quite awhile. Is that the same as operating with a surplus?

[Wahoo Redux]

Polly was a pip.

[lightning]

Some of the inconsistencies in the off-and-on story/example about Super Dinky college, especially the timeline of Super Dinky's decline, made me wonder how much of Polly's stories were based on a real Super Dinky, and how much of the story was embellished.

Nonetheless, the story was very believable, very consistent with mine and others' experiences in similar places, and very valuable. I'm sure much of Polly's recounting of the story was half helpful cautionary tale and half self-therapy, for a career unfulfilled.

Because of Polly, I can explain why the sLACs near my university closed down, and I can somewhat predict who might be next to circle the drain (and whose students and desirable staff and faculty we can poach).

[cascade]

Cazenovia College defaulted on a bond. It's been in deficit FYs 2018-2020. Data on FY 2021 isn't published yet, but I don't expect anything different.

I predict Cazenovia closes within the next four years.

I'm sad to read this. Thanks for sharing the info.

I just read that in September the college dedicated a historic property worth $1.8 million that was donated from a local family. I wonder if the donors knew about the financial outlook.

Cazenovia is in the middle of nowhere, with several public colleges and financially healthy SLACs nearby.

It's only a 30 minute drive to downtown Syracuse from Cazenovia. (I know... some will say I just proved your point!) Just saying that it could be worse.

[marshwiggle]

Cazenovia College defaulted on a bond. It's been in deficit FYs 2018-2020. Data on FY 2021 isn't published yet, but I don't expect anything different.

I predict Cazenovia closes within the next four years.

I'm sad to read this. Thanks for sharing the info.

I just read that in September the college dedicated a historic property worth $1.8 million that was donated from a local family. I wonder if the donors knew about the financial outlook.

I wonder if there were any clauses in the donation that would forbid the institution from selling the property. If so, the family could probably get it back in court. Clearly if the donation was that recent the institution knew they were taking it under false pretenses.

[mamselle]

Some of the inconsistencies in the off-and-on story/example about Super Dinky college, especially the timeline of Super Dinky's decline, made me wonder how much of Polly's stories were based on a real Super Dinky, and how much of the story was embellished.

Nonetheless, the story was very believable, very consistent with mine and others' experiences in similar places, and very valuable. I'm sure much of Polly's recounting of the story was half helpful cautionary tale and half self-therapy, for a career unfulfilled.

Because of Polly, I can explain why the sLACs near my university closed down, and I can somewhat predict who might be next to circle the drain (and whose students and desirable staff and faculty we can poach).

As it turned out, a friend who had taken a job a Super-Dinky (and left ASAP) and I confirmed independently that Poly's tales were true.

I didn't always agree with other aspects of Poly's party line, but I also wouldn't say her career "failed," at all. My sense was, she found an excellent job in a position that used her scientific,  engineering,  and analytic strengths very well, and made a good life for herself in that setting.

M.

[apl68]

One reason I hate that the old Fora archives haven't been preserved is losing the Super Dinky saga.

[marshwiggle]

I think Polly is missed in the nostalgic way a tough parent or teacher is remembered long after when people realize the toughness was necessary, even if at the time it was unpleasant.

[jonadam]

Sigh.  One of these colleges in the "C" range has a job opening that I am planning on applying to.

Anybody have any insight into the accuracy of the Forbes review?  Probably like most people, I am familiar with a handful of these schools.  Some that I know of make sense for their grade, but one that I know about is on solid financial footing, at least as far as I know.

The Forbes ratings are rough, like any alt metric. In the C range we have a real mix.  Sarah Lawrence I suspect would be rescued by even more ardent alumnae than Sweet Briar shoud things get tough. Ithaca was nationally notable for streamlining the offerings and making 118 faculty redundant in the process. That may have fixed their near-term finances. RPI's fabulously overcompensated president has not been the rainmaker they pay for recently. Paul Smiths rejected becoming a wealthy woman's poodle, but that may have dire financial consequences since it is a tiny and remote school. St John Fisher got some bad press when they withdrew a faculty offer because the candidate asked for a bit more salary--which is not something a fiscally sound school would do.

These observations are mostly from morbid fascination with reading news reports of schools messing up.

1. I *think* that Saint Peter's University is the one in New Jersey that had some national fame during March Madness last year.

2. Rider University being so low isn't surprising. We've learned a lot in how it dealt with Westminster Choir College and none of it is good... expect the end of Rider in 5 years.

[spork]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

All of the Super Dinky tale was true. Polly had the good sense to leave when it become obvious that no one was willing or able to save it.

[Hibush]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

What is your analysis of Deep Springs? That is the dinkiest of the dinky.

[spork]

Cazenovia is going to close a lot sooner than I thought.

Deep Springs is in the black only when contributions are enough to cover expenses. It does not generate net revenue from operations. Deficits in FYs 2015 to 2020 except for 2019, when it got donations of nearly $8 million.

[jimbogumbo]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

All of the Super Dinky tale was true. Polly had the good sense to leave when it become obvious that no one was willing or able to save it.

What about using endowment by student as a measure?

[Wahoo Redux]

Some of the inconsistencies in the off-and-on story/example about Super Dinky college, especially the timeline of Super Dinky's decline, made me wonder how much of Polly's stories were based on a real Super Dinky, and how much of the story was embellished.

Nonetheless, the story was very believable, very consistent with mine and others' experiences in similar places, and very valuable. I'm sure much of Polly's recounting of the story was half helpful cautionary tale and half self-therapy, for a career unfulfilled.

Because of Polly, I can explain why the sLACs near my university closed down, and I can somewhat predict who might be next to circle the drain (and whose students and desirable staff and faculty we can poach).

My disagreements with Polly were fierce but strictly philosophical. We would still disagree.   But I learned a hellah lot.

Polly, if you are still reading, it might be time for you to resurface.

Consider that we might all be like an elderly married couple who can argue but still be in love.

[TreadingLife]

Bay State College in Massachusetts is in a world of hurt. I taught there 20 years ago. My first teaching gig with my Masters degree. It convinced me that I should teach if I could enjoy teaching a stats class at night after a long day of work to students who also were coming from a long day of work. I didn't realize they were a for profit institution back then and now. Regardless, the article doesn't paint a good picture. 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/10/18/two-colleges-flounder-under-opaque-profit-owners