Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[TreadingLife]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

All of the Super Dinky tale was true. Polly had the good sense to leave when it become obvious that no one was willing or able to save it.

Spork, you and others have made this board invaluable. Thank you again for the lens you help shine for folks who need to know what to look for.

Last night I was pulling IPEDS numbers and using the College Stress Test book to evaluate my institution (not that I really needed to see the numbers to know where we are headed). I'm also evaluating schools with job openings.

Does anyone have insight on the financial health of the University of Rhode Island or opinions about the school in general?

[Hibush]

Cazenovia is going to close a lot sooner than I thought.

Deep Springs is in the black only when contributions are enough to cover expenses. It does not generate net revenue from operations. Deficits in FYs 2015 to 2020 except for 2019, when it got donations of nearly $8 million.

Thanks for looking into that. With no tuition, how much does revenue from operations drive their finance? $8 million should last them a while since it is a lot on a per-student basis.

@Cascade re Cazenovia: One of the features of Syracuse is that you can indeed be nowhere by driving half an hour in almost any direction (even on the Interstates). New York and Pennsylvania have an amazing amount of it.

[rth253]

As reporting in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Bethel University is eliminating nine niche academic programs because of low enrollment. In FY 2021, it had an $11 million deficit on $98 million in expenses. Its undergraduate FTE enrollment has decreased by almost 25% over the last decade. Minor trims around the edges of its curriculum are not going to make it financially viable for the long term.

Not a "super dinky" place like Cazenovia, but that declining enrollment and proportionately huge deficits does look alarming.  Looks like they're the only college affiliated with a Baptist denomination that I'm not familiar with.  Must be one of those denominations with serious long-term declining membership.  If they do eventually lose their college, it will be a real loss for that denomination.

Looks like those niche programs are mostly vocational/business in nature.  I guess they did what many SLACs have done in recent years and created a bunch of niche programs of this sort to stand out enough to continue attracting students.  Alma Mater has been doing something similar.  With more success so far.

I have some colleagues at Bethel. I suspect one of the issues is that the denomination and thus the college are incredibly homophobic, and they make all faculty and students sign a statement that they believe, among other things, that anyone not heterosexual will burn in hell and that they won't support them in any way that's affirming. This causes tension between the student body, which increasingly is not cool with that stance, and alumni/big donors who threaten to stop supporting the school if it becomes at all affirming of LGBTQ+ people.

[Hibush]

I have some colleagues at Bethel. I suspect one of the issues is that the denomination and thus the college are incredibly homophobic, and they make all faculty and students sign a statement that they believe, among other things, that anyone not heterosexual will burn in hell and that they won't support them in any way that's affirming. This causes tension between the student body, which increasingly is not cool with that stance, and alumni/big donors who threaten to stop supporting the school if it becomes at all affirming of LGBTQ+ people.

That mismatch of interests is an important driver of low enrolment! That can be especiallly prevalent at a small place with an insular board.

How much does the mismatch of interests contribute to enrolment challenges at small religious schools compared to the other factors of lower overall demand for religious higher education, and the general pull of megauniversities making those seeking a religous education chose big places like Liberty (~50k resident + 115K remote) and BYU (~50k)?

[spork]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

All of the Super Dinky tale was true. Polly had the good sense to leave when it become obvious that no one was willing or able to save it.

What about using endowment by student as a measure?

It's helpful but only in combination with other criteria. The typical reasonable annual endowment draw is 4%. On a $100 million dollar endowment and an enrollment of 1,000 students, that's only $4,000 per student. If enrollment falls, per student amount increases, but not by enough.

Really the only tiny schools with endowments large enough to survive a major enrollment hit are places like Williams. And they have such strong brands that they aren't going to have enrollment problems.

[marshwiggle]

Some of the inconsistencies in the off-and-on story/example about Super Dinky college, especially the timeline of Super Dinky's decline, made me wonder how much of Polly's stories were based on a real Super Dinky, and how much of the story was embellished.

Nonetheless, the story was very believable, very consistent with mine and others' experiences in similar places, and very valuable. I'm sure much of Polly's recounting of the story was half helpful cautionary tale and half self-therapy, for a career unfulfilled.

Because of Polly, I can explain why the sLACs near my university closed down, and I can somewhat predict who might be next to circle the drain (and whose students and desirable staff and faculty we can poach).

My disagreements with Polly were fierce but strictly philosophical. We would still disagree.   But I learned a hellah lot.

Polly, if you are still reading, it might be time for you to resurface.

Consider that we might all be like an elderly married couple who can argue but still be in love.

I'm guessing Polly probably doesn't lurk, or at least not very frequently. She strikes me as someone who makes a decision and doesn't look back, (which is part of why so many people used to get upset with her; that ability to not just wait around hoping things would change), which is part of what I liked about her.

Her arguments tended to be very well-researched. I have no idea how she had the time to look up all of the references she gave in her detailed posts.

If she came back, after a possible "honeymoon period" where people would say they'd missed her, I'd guess within a few months that same people would be reacting the same way as before, and no-one would be saying "I don't agree, but I'm glad to hear your perspective" or anything of the sort. Having one's beliefs challenged is like eating one's vegetables; something a lot of people say they appreciate because it's good for them (in principle), but who avoid it in practice because it's unpleasant.

To some on here, the ideal forum would be where everyone was all rainbows and unicorns about academia, (except maybe about how evil governments and administrators are trying to destroy it).

[spork]

Forbes rankings are shit. Look at IRS Form 990 filings and IPEDS enrollment data. Basic rule of thumb: do not work at any private institution of less than 1,000 FTE undergrads unless it has a billion dollar endowment. In ten years, if that, it will be "less than 1,500 FTE undergrads. . . "

All of the Super Dinky tale was true. Polly had the good sense to leave when it become obvious that no one was willing or able to save it.

Spork, you and others have made this board invaluable. Thank you again for the lens you help shine for folks who need to know what to look for.

Last night I was pulling IPEDS numbers and using the College Stress Test book to evaluate my institution (not that I really needed to see the numbers to know where we are headed). I'm also evaluating schools with job openings.

Does anyone have insight on the financial health of the University of Rhode Island or opinions about the school in general?

Any state flagship campus is safe, in terms of "not facing closure." Working conditions might be comparatively good or bad depending on the state system's finances, but it's unlikely that entire departments will be wiped out because financial exigency has been declared.

Another good tool is collegescorecard.ed.gov. Schools with low retention and graduation rates, low alumni earnings, etc. in comparison to similarly-sized institutions do not have a bright future.

[Wahoo Redux]

why so many people used to get upset with her; that ability to not just wait around hoping things would change), which is part of what I liked about her.


To some on here, the ideal forum would be where everyone was all rainbows and unicorns about academia, (except maybe about how evil governments and administrators are trying to destroy it).

Polly was extremely rude, condescending, and combative.  That is what people did not like about her.  I enjoyed the combat more than I should have.  But everyone, myself included, valued her insights.  The misplaced idea that anyone saw "rainbows and unicorns" is simply self-congratulatory puffery. 

[Mobius]

I have some colleagues at Bethel. I suspect one of the issues is that the denomination and thus the college are incredibly homophobic, and they make all faculty and students sign a statement that they believe, among other things, that anyone not heterosexual will burn in hell and that they won't support them in any way that's affirming. This causes tension between the student body, which increasingly is not cool with that stance, and alumni/big donors who threaten to stop supporting the school if it becomes at all affirming of LGBTQ+ people.

That mismatch of interests is an important driver of low enrolment! That can be especiallly prevalent at a small place with an insular board.

How much does the mismatch of interests contribute to enrolment challenges at small religious schools compared to the other factors of lower overall demand for religious higher education, and the general pull of megauniversities making those seeking a religous education chose big places like Liberty (~50k resident + 115K remote) and BYU (~50k)?

BYU offers pretty much anything, so it's easy for some LDS kid with good grades and active in their faith to want to go (plus tuition is more affordable than almost any other four-year option). BYU-Idaho struggles academically in that its program offerings aren't as robust. There is still room for BYu-Idaho to grow while BYU in Provo is essentially at full capacity.

I see most religious schools struggle to provide a good student experience compared to a flagship. Same with regional publics that cut programs. Poor infrastructure, employees who aren't motivated to be there, and students who go there because they have few options due to poor academic performance.

[sonoamused]

Cazenovia College defaulted on a bond. It's been in deficit FYs 2018-2020. Data on FY 2021 isn't published yet, but I don't expect anything different.

I predict Cazenovia closes within the next four years.

Cazenovia is not going to last that long; faculty and staff have been told its uncertain what the status will be next academic year and its not recruiting new students currently.

[lightning]

Some of the inconsistencies in the off-and-on story/example about Super Dinky college, especially the timeline of Super Dinky's decline, made me wonder how much of Polly's stories were based on a real Super Dinky, and how much of the story was embellished.

Nonetheless, the story was very believable, very consistent with mine and others' experiences in similar places, and very valuable. I'm sure much of Polly's recounting of the story was half helpful cautionary tale and half self-therapy, for a career unfulfilled.

Because of Polly, I can explain why the sLACs near my university closed down, and I can somewhat predict who might be next to circle the drain (and whose students and desirable staff and faculty we can poach).

As it turned out, a friend who had taken a job a Super-Dinky (and left ASAP) and I confirmed independently that Poly's tales were true.

I didn't always agree with other aspects of Poly's party line, but I also wouldn't say her career "failed," at all. My sense was, she found an excellent job in a position that used her scientific,  engineering,  and analytic strengths very well, and made a good life for herself in that setting.

M.

I never once said poly_mer "failed" nor did I ever intend to imply that. Poly_mer did well, no matter the professional situation, and I congratulated her for her accomplishments in and out of academe. The sense that I got was that Poly_mer was never able to convince herself that leaving academe was the right thing to do. So, she lingered here in the fora, in part to express to all of us (really herself) everything that was wrong with academe (with Super Dinky as a case study), in order to convince herself that she made the right decision to leave academe and that her current professional situation is indeed the better situation. Her missionary work in the fora ended when she finally made peace with her decision.

[kaysixteen]

Has anyone heard from polly recently?  Is she even still subbed to the fora?

[Wahoo Redux]

Has anyone heard from polly recently?  Is she even still subbed to the fora?

I actually just sent her a PM over on Reddit.  She was active there for a bit and we talked a couple of times, but she has gone to ground for about four months.  I was going to tell her that peeps over here missed her presence. 

For more good news:

Despite Hopes for a Rebound, Enrollment Falls Again

[Hibush]

Cazenovia College defaulted on a bond. It's been in deficit FYs 2018-2020. Data on FY 2021 isn't published yet, but I don't expect anything different.

I predict Cazenovia closes within the next four years.

Cazenovia is not going to last that long; faculty and staff have been told its uncertain what the status will be next academic year and its not recruiting new students currently.

Thanks for the inside info!

The article recounts the twists and turns in Cazenovia's history. I think it is instructive to see the radical changes it has experienced. The idea that it has been plugging along as a successful small college for 200 years and suddenly feels pain no is completely in error.

in 1824,  it was founded as the Seminary of the Genesee Conference in what had been the Madison County Courthouse. It initially welcomed both men and women students. Although sponsored by the Methodists, the seminary was nonsectarian, and its trustees were a mix of clergy and laypeople.

Between 1904 and 1931, it functioned as a secondary school for local young people, an arrangement that ended when Cazenovia Central High School was built.

The Methodists withdrew church support for the institution when, faced with steadily declining enrollment, trustees turned it into a junior college [in 1942].

The college dropped "Junior" from its name in 1961 and became Cazenovia College for Women.

In 1982, trustees voted to return to coeducation, accepting men into its student ranks again starting in 1983 and shortening the institution's name to Cazenovia College.

[Hibush]

For more good news:

Despite Hopes for a Rebound, Enrollment Falls Again

While students are back on campus, the labor market is still really strong. Most of those on the fence about school vs work are choosing work. The Fed's efforts to slow inflation should be changing that situation (and many expected it to have happened by now).