Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[marshwiggle]

For more good news:

Despite Hopes for a Rebound, Enrollment Falls Again

While students are back on campus, the labor market is still really strong. Most of those on the fence about school vs work are choosing work. The Fed's efforts to slow inflation should be changing that situation (and many expected it to have happened by now).

That's good to hear. If the only people who go to school are those who have actually figured out that's what they really want to do, (and why), that's going to get rid of an awful lot of the un- (or under-) -motivated students.

[lightning]

Has anyone heard from polly recently?  Is she even still subbed to the fora?

I'm actually hoping that Poly does not come back, because it means that she's finally at peace.

[apl68]

Cazenovia College defaulted on a bond. It's been in deficit FYs 2018-2020. Data on FY 2021 isn't published yet, but I don't expect anything different.

I predict Cazenovia closes within the next four years.

Cazenovia is not going to last that long; faculty and staff have been told its uncertain what the status will be next academic year and its not recruiting new students currently.

Sounds like they've as good as given up, then.

[secundem_artem]

Has anyone heard from polly recently?  Is she even still subbed to the fora?

I'm actually hoping that Poly does not come back, because it means that she's finally at peace.

From the member list:  Last Active:August 29, 2021, 09:13:03 AM

Pardon my being a bit of a d!ck here, but she hurt herself falling off her high horse.  She is one of those people who believes data wins every single argument.  If that were the case, humans would not need emotions, we'd just look at the numbers.  Typical engineer - goddam humans buggering up all the neat systems they design.

[mamselle]

I met Poly in one of our meet-ups, and others have, in the past, as well.

As I said, I didn't agree with some of her posts (and maybe along the lines you cite, in some cases), but with all she was dealing with in other arenas, that might be a bit one-dimensional as a critique. (Anyone remember the MIL-from-(well, let's say, 'outer-space'? The worries with Blocky as an infant?)

In person, I found our conversation fun and informative, and enjoyed the evening.

We're all a mixed bag, I'd say...

M.

[dismalist]

... people who believe data wins every single argument.  If that were the case, humans would not need emotions, we'd just look at the numbers.

If one starts with data, and relies on inference to make sense of the data, it's best to be extremely skeptical. "The sea of data is mute."

If one starts with theory -- conjectures -- one has to compare to data to test if the guesses are correct.

Our emotions can be efficient or inefficient. They evolved a long, long time ago in an environment very different from ours. What our feelings told us to do 40, 000 years ago may well be the wrong thing to do today. Our emotions, too, must be, and are, tested against the data, whether we like it or not. Best to know it.

[Mobius]

Plenty of college-aged adults not going to school and not really working, either.

[selecter]

Now I see why Polly left.

[marshwiggle]

... people who believe data wins every single argument.  If that were the case, humans would not need emotions, we'd just look at the numbers.

If one starts with data, and relies on inference to make sense of the data, it's best to be extremely skeptical. "The sea of data is mute."

If one starts with theory -- conjectures -- one has to compare to data to test if the guesses are correct.

Our emotions can be efficient or inefficient. They evolved a long, long time ago in an environment very different from ours. What our feelings told us to do 40, 000 years ago may well be the wrong thing to do today. Our emotions, too, must be, and are, tested against the data, whether we like it or not. Best to know it.

Absolutely. Arguments from emotion, in total disregard for data, is a recipe for disaster.

[Ruralguy]

Honestly, sometimes people use "where's the data?" as a verbal tick, and not a real critique.
That is to say, they know the data does not exist, so they use "where's the data?" as a way to block progress on something they don't particularly like. That being said, if the data does exist, its probably worth collecting, even if  there might be flaws in the data set for whatever reason (that can be discussed). That being said, I am not in favor of just making up stuff, but sometimes you just have to make choices in absence of data.

[marshwiggle]

Honestly, sometimes people use "where's the data?" as a verbal tick, and not a real critique.
That is to say, they know the data does not exist, so they use "where's the data?" as a way to block progress on something they don't particularly like. That being said, if the data does exist, its probably worth collecting, even if  there might be flaws in the data set for whatever reason (that can be discussed). That being said, I am not in favor of just making up stuff, but sometimes you just have to make choices in absence of data.

Sure, but if you're being intellectually honest then you have to be willing to propose relatively objective criteria by which the success of your choice can be evaluated after the fact. (In other words, if the data don't exist yet, you want to pay attention to them as they become available.)

[Wahoo Redux]

Now I see why Polly left.

Polly left because the mods told her she needed to tone it down, and she was mortally offended. 

[Ruralguy]

Frankly, I never really thought it got that bad. There was a political thread during which I got very incensed with some some pro Trump statement or another. I forget the details, but besides that one time, she more or less took a very predictable point of view and stuck with it. I don't think she suffered fools (in her opinion) gladly, but I don't recall outright insults or anything like that, but maybe I perceived it that way because I more or less agreed with her besides on the political matters.

[marshwiggle]

Frankly, I never really thought it got that bad. There was a political thread during which I got very incensed with some some pro Trump statement or another. I forget the details, but besides that one time, she more or less took a very predictable point of view and stuck with it. I don't think she suffered fools (in her opinion) gladly, but I don't recall outright insults or anything like that, but maybe I perceived it that way because I more or less agreed with her besides on the political matters.

I think you're getting at the point that how "combative" or "obnoxious" someone is judged to be often highly correlates with the degree to which their opinions clash with their audience. (If you're preaching to the choir, rant on!!!)

[dismalist]

Frankly, I never really thought it got that bad. There was a political thread during which I got very incensed with some some pro Trump statement or another. I forget the details, but besides that one time, she more or less took a very predictable point of view and stuck with it. I don't think she suffered fools (in her opinion) gladly, but I don't recall outright insults or anything like that, but maybe I perceived it that way because I more or less agreed with her besides on the political matters.

I think you're getting at the point that how "combative" or "obnoxious" someone is judged to be often highly correlates with the degree to which their opinions clash with their audience. (If you're preaching to the choir, rant on!!!)

I read most posts, though I didn't respond to many. Don't recall anything outright obnoxious, either. Indeed, spirited debate is something I got used to professionally early on. Often enlightening under a thick skin.