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Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

Started by Hibush, May 17, 2019, 05:35:11 PM

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mahagonny

Quote from: dismalist on May 13, 2020, 04:34:15 PM

This is fundamentally a real estate deal: BC gets the campus in exchange for taking on Pine Manor's debt. In two years there won't be anything "Pine Manor" anymore.


'Killing Me Softly?'

polly_mer

Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

Hibush

Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

spork

Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

Yes. But not much of a surprise. I see all sorts of leadership failures -- no real planning beyond the next fiscal year or two, no one acting on long-term trends. Hope springs eternal in higher ed administration.
It's terrible writing, used to obfuscate the fact that the authors actually have nothing to say.

TreadingLife

Quote from: spork on May 14, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

Yes. But not much of a surprise. I see all sorts of leadership failures -- no real planning beyond the next fiscal year or two, no one acting on long-term trends. Hope springs eternal in higher ed administration.

This school has a four year graduation rate of 13.0% and a six year graduation rate of 27.6%. 

At some point you really have to ask why we push so many unprepared students into college. And to think of the debt they will incur with nothing to show for it.

Parasaurolophus

Duke is also suspending retirement contributions for a year, plus a 10% salary cut for employees earning $285 000 and above.
I know it's a genus.

marshwiggle

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 14, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
Duke is also suspending retirement contributions for a year, plus a 10% salary cut for employees earning $285 000 and above.

Oh, the humanity!
It takes so little to be above average.

Parasaurolophus

Quote from: marshwiggle on May 14, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 14, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
Duke is also suspending retirement contributions for a year, plus a 10% salary cut for employees earning $285 000 and above.

Oh, the humanity!

Hey now. That thirty grand was designated for private HS tuition!
I know it's a genus.

quasihumanist

Quote from: TreadingLife on May 14, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
At some point you really have to ask why we push so many unprepared students into college. And to think of the debt they will incur with nothing to show for it.

Look at what's happening now.  If you don't have a college education(*), then there's a 25% chance you'll be deemed essential, in which case you get to be exposed to coronavirus all day so that you get sick and die, or a 73% chance you'll be deemed nonessential, in which case you're required to stay at home with no income so that you eventually run out of money, can't buy food, and starve to death.  (The remaining 2% is if your family has lots of money or connections.)

Is it any wonder that people hope against all hope that they somehow magically become prepared for college?

(*) This note is to help you understand the definition of "college education" I'm using.  Some people go through 4 or 6 years of college and maybe get a degree but never get a college education (in many cases because they were never ready for college), and a few people manage to get a college education on their own without going to college (but these people were all prepared for college, even if they didn't know it).

mahagonny

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 14, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
Duke is also suspending retirement contributions for a year, plus a 10% salary cut for employees earning $285 000 and above.

Ouch!!

apl68

Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

It does give the impression of a can being kicked repeatedly down the wall until it came up against a solid brick wall.
And you will cry out on that day because of the king you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you on that day.

polly_mer

Quote from: apl68 on May 14, 2020, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

It does give the impression of a can being kicked repeatedly down the wall until it came up against a solid brick wall.

My husband has pointed out recently that a lot of the small institutions that were slowly circling the drain just had the drain expand out to their trajectory.  It may be cold comfort, but Missouri Western isn't flat out closing; it's "just" making cuts to the programs that have few students.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

Hibush

Quote from: TreadingLife on May 14, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: spork on May 14, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

Yes. But not much of a surprise. I see all sorts of leadership failures -- no real planning beyond the next fiscal year or two, no one acting on long-term trends. Hope springs eternal in higher ed administration.

This school has a four year graduation rate of 13.0% and a six year graduation rate of 27.6%. 

At some point you really have to ask why we push so many unprepared students into college. And to think of the debt they will incur with nothing to show for it.

There are institutions that are trying to serve students who have not been on the college track, but some of whom are capable of college with a significant amount of extra help. That is generally seen as a societal good.

It is tough, because of the terrible graduation rates. Comparing with colleges that have high numbers makes them look bad, but the real comparison may be with 0%, which is the real alternative for that pool.

It is also tough because it is expensive to provide the extra support.

It is also tough because most of the students can't afford tuition.

Pine Manor seemed to be trying to do that as a private college, which does not seem possible. Missouri Western is trying to do it as a public, with taxpayers covering the cost of making those students bigger parts of society and the economy than they would have been. But Missouri was not paying the cost. 

secundem_artem

Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
Quote from: TreadingLife on May 14, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: spork on May 14, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

Yes. But not much of a surprise. I see all sorts of leadership failures -- no real planning beyond the next fiscal year or two, no one acting on long-term trends. Hope springs eternal in higher ed administration.

This school has a four year graduation rate of 13.0% and a six year graduation rate of 27.6%. 

At some point you really have to ask why we push so many unprepared students into college. And to think of the debt they will incur with nothing to show for it.

There are institutions that are trying to serve students who have not been on the college track, but some of whom are capable of college with a significant amount of extra help. That is generally seen as a societal good.

It is tough, because of the terrible graduation rates. Comparing with colleges that have high numbers makes them look bad, but the real comparison may be with 0%, which is the real alternative for that pool.

It is also tough because it is expensive to provide the extra support.

It is also tough because most of the students can't afford tuition.

Pine Manor seemed to be trying to do that as a private college, which does not seem possible. Missouri Western is trying to do it as a public, with taxpayers covering the cost of making those students bigger parts of society and the economy than they would have been. But Missouri was not paying the cost.

I don't doubt that the extra support would be helpful in getting such students to succeed.  But I'm not sure that a 4 year school with faculty who are primarily doctorally prepared is the best way to do that. 

Québec has a system known as CEGEP which (as near as I can tell) is a 1-2 year transition period between high school and university and is a requirement for admission to a university.  I have no idea what their faculty's credentials are, but for those students who require the intensive hand holding, social and other support needed to succeed in a 4 year school, presumably their faculty are better prepared to ensure readiness for a 4 year school. And perhaps those teaching at a university need spend less time  teaching basic concepts of math and writing. 

I speak only for myself, as one who teaches in programs where students are generally well prepared.  If I wanted to spend my days teaching remedial whatever, I would have become a high school teacher and not bothered with achieving anything past my undergraduate education.  As always, YMMV, but the problem of unprepared students is a real one that some students may well overcome, but leaves others at risk for nothing but a 5 figure student loan to deal with.

If we have any Québéquois faculty here, perhaps they can correct whatever errors I have made in this.
Funeral by funeral, the academy advances

dr_codex

Quote from: secundem_artem on May 14, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
Quote from: TreadingLife on May 14, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: spork on May 14, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Quote from: Hibush on May 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 14, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Missouri Western cuts 30% of faculty as part of substantial program cuts
A brand-new board and administration took a look at the budget critically and were shocked. The story implies that the previous administration and board had not done so in the last decade or so.

Yes. But not much of a surprise. I see all sorts of leadership failures -- no real planning beyond the next fiscal year or two, no one acting on long-term trends. Hope springs eternal in higher ed administration.

This school has a four year graduation rate of 13.0% and a six year graduation rate of 27.6%. 

At some point you really have to ask why we push so many unprepared students into college. And to think of the debt they will incur with nothing to show for it.

There are institutions that are trying to serve students who have not been on the college track, but some of whom are capable of college with a significant amount of extra help. That is generally seen as a societal good.

It is tough, because of the terrible graduation rates. Comparing with colleges that have high numbers makes them look bad, but the real comparison may be with 0%, which is the real alternative for that pool.

It is also tough because it is expensive to provide the extra support.

It is also tough because most of the students can't afford tuition.

Pine Manor seemed to be trying to do that as a private college, which does not seem possible. Missouri Western is trying to do it as a public, with taxpayers covering the cost of making those students bigger parts of society and the economy than they would have been. But Missouri was not paying the cost.

I don't doubt that the extra support would be helpful in getting such students to succeed.  But I'm not sure that a 4 year school with faculty who are primarily doctorally prepared is the best way to do that. 

Québec has a system known as CEGEP which (as near as I can tell) is a 1-2 year transition period between high school and university and is a requirement for admission to a university.  I have no idea what their faculty's credentials are, but for those students who require the intensive hand holding, social and other support needed to succeed in a 4 year school, presumably their faculty are better prepared to ensure readiness for a 4 year school. And perhaps those teaching at a university need spend less time  teaching basic concepts of math and writing. 

I speak only for myself, as one who teaches in programs where students are generally well prepared.  If I wanted to spend my days teaching remedial whatever, I would have become a high school teacher and not bothered with achieving anything past my undergraduate education.  As always, YMMV, but the problem of unprepared students is a real one that some students may well overcome, but leaves others at risk for nothing but a 5 figure student loan to deal with.

If we have any Québéquois faculty here, perhaps they can correct whatever errors I have made in this.

I have taught at a CEGEP, and know many people who do.

As a rule, faculty there have graduate degrees in their discipline. (When I left, there was grumbling about how they should stop hiring people with doctorates, because we always left. I have my own thoughts on that, but I also know that many people with PhD's now happily stay.) But they don't have -- or, generally, start with -- education credentials. In that sense, the qualifications are more like those for community colleges/junior colleges than they are for high schools. As a rule, people hired at one aren't qualified for the other.

And, yes, they are something like a hybrid between high school and higher ed. 16/17-year olds, who have finished grade 11. They attend CEGEP either as a bridge to college, or to earn terminal professional certificates. That is, they either track academic or trade.

Within Quebec, students who complete the pre-university track basically earn a year of GenEd/Intro courses, and can then complete their follow-on programs in 3 years.

Whether or not these students are better prepared for college is an interesting question. They certainly are treated in a more "collegiate" manner than the high schools of which I know. But many of them really struggle with the shift in requirements, in ways not unfamiliar to those of you who get them a year later in Freshman transition programs.

back to the books.