Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[marshwiggle]

I have taught at a CEGEP, and know many people who do.

I did too, back in the Stone Age.

As a rule, faculty there have graduate degrees in their discipline. (When I left, there was grumbling about how they should stop hiring people with doctorates, because we always left. I have my own thoughts on that, but I also know that many people with PhD's now happily stay.) But they don't have -- or, generally, start with -- education credentials. In that sense, the qualifications are more like those for community colleges/junior colleges than they are for high schools. As a rule, people hired at one aren't qualified for the other.

And, yes, they are something like a hybrid between high school and higher ed. 16/17-year olds, who have finished grade 11. They attend CEGEP either as a bridge to college, or to earn terminal professional certificates. That is, they either track academic or trade.

Within Quebec, students who complete the pre-university track basically earn a year of GenEd/Intro courses, and can then complete their follow-on programs in 3 years.

Whether or not these students are better prepared for college is an interesting question. They certainly are treated in a more "collegiate" manner than the high schools of which I know. But many of them really struggle with the shift in requirements, in ways not unfamiliar to those of you who get them a year later in Freshman transition programs.

I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but when I graduated from high school in Quebec, I skipped CEGEP by going to the Maritimes, where Quebec students were accepted into first year university. So it shaved a year off, since pre-university CEGEP was 2 years, with 3 years for university, vs. 4 years for university in the Maritimes. There were a lot of good students who did that, since CEGEP had a reputation for being largely devoted to partying, etc.

So, at least then, some of the best prepared students out of high school skipped CEGEP entirely, so the quality of students coming out of CEGEP would be a bit skewed.

[Bonnie]

Duke is also suspending retirement contributions for a year, plus a 10% salary cut for employees earning $285 000 and above.

Oh, the humanity!

I believe it's only a 10% cut on salary in excess of $285,000. So if I make $290,000, I have a salary cut of $500. So hopefully those folks will still be able to make ends meet.

[spork]

Discussion about the fate of Wells College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/15/wells-college-exemplifies-which-institutions-stand-lose-most-pandemic.

What's not mentioned:

Wells was in deficit in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017. As of FY 2018, its FTE undergraduate enrollment was only 450 students. And it sits within about an hour's drive of Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY-Cortland, and SUNY-Oswego, in an area that has suffered economic and probably population decline because of de-industrialization.

[TreadingLife]

Discussion about the fate of Wells College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/15/wells-college-exemplifies-which-institutions-stand-lose-most-pandemic.

What's not mentioned:

Wells was in deficit in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017. As of FY 2018, its FTE undergraduate enrollment was only 450 students. And it sits within about an hour's drive of Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY-Cortland, and SUNY-Oswego, in an area that has suffered economic and probably population decline because of de-industrialization.

I wonder how much the Excelsior Scholarship program is affecting enrollments at all private colleges in NY. The program started in 2017.

https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-free-degree-program-excelsior-scholarship

[Parasaurolophus]

I have taught at a CEGEP, and know many people who do.

I've never taught at one, but I attended one (as did at least one other forumite I know of), and know many people (all with PhDs) who teach there now. I did teach a bit at a university in Québec, though. Credential creep has apparently become a thing, at least in the humanities, as the oversupply spills over. It's incredibly hard to get a CÉGEP gig on the island of Montréal, though. Most of them went through a hiring spree a while ago, and it's really tough to get your foot in the door now.

I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but when I graduated from high school in Quebec, I skipped CEGEP by going to the Maritimes, where Quebec students were accepted into first year university. So it shaved a year off, since pre-university CEGEP was 2 years, with 3 years for university, vs. 4 years for university in the Maritimes. There were a lot of good students who did that, since CEGEP had a reputation for being largely devoted to partying, etc.

I also went to the Maritimes, but doing so in my day (early aughts) required 1 year of CÉGEP.


FWIW, when I taught in Québec, I definitely noticed that the students who'd been through CÉGEP were much better prepared--and stronger--in my intro classes. That noticeable difference disappeared by the time they got to intermediate classes, however.

[polly_mer]

Discussion about the fate of Wells College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/15/wells-college-exemplifies-which-institutions-stand-lose-most-pandemic.

What's not mentioned:

Wells was in deficit in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017. As of FY 2018, its FTE undergraduate enrollment was only 450 students. And it sits within about an hour's drive of Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY-Cortland, and SUNY-Oswego, in an area that has suffered economic and probably population decline because of de-industrialization.

I wonder how much the Excelsior Scholarship program is affecting enrollments at all private colleges in NY. The program started in 2017.

https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-free-degree-program-excelsior-scholarship

An article from last fall indicated that it was only a 5% drop in enrollment overall for the privates in the first year.  However, the privates appear to have made changes that may or may not be in their favor.  Wells College, for example, had 18% of the annual budget from study abroad, per Gibralter's letter.  A quick overview of the independent colleges and universities in New York State can be found at: https://cicu.org/publications-research/quick-facts

Spork's comment includes financial shortfalls that would have been entirely before the Excelsior Program went into effect.
Wells College was already on probation with Middle States last summer due to financial planning.

[Hibush]

Discussion about the fate of Wells College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/15/wells-college-exemplifies-which-institutions-stand-lose-most-pandemic.

What's not mentioned:

Wells was in deficit in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017. As of FY 2018, its FTE undergraduate enrollment was only 450 students. And it sits within about an hour's drive of Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY-Cortland, and SUNY-Oswego, in an area that has suffered economic and probably population decline because of de-industrialization.

I wonder how much the Excelsior Scholarship program is affecting enrollments at all private colleges in NY. The program started in 2017.

https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-free-degree-program-excelsior-scholarship

Probably not very much. The scholarship reduces tuition from ~$5,000 to zero. If that makes a difference in a student's choice of school, it is unlikely that they would have been a positive-net-revenue student at a private school.

The scholarship matters most for students who want to go to SUNY school but can't quite swing the finances.

[dr_codex]

I have taught at a CEGEP, and know many people who do.

I've never taught at one, but I attended one (as did at least one other forumite I know of), and know many people (all with PhDs) who teach there now. I did teach a bit at a university in Québec, though. Credential creep has apparently become a thing, at least in the humanities, as the oversupply spills over. It's incredibly hard to get a CÉGEP gig on the island of Montréal, though. Most of them went through a hiring spree a while ago, and it's really tough to get your foot in the door now.

I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but when I graduated from high school in Quebec, I skipped CEGEP by going to the Maritimes, where Quebec students were accepted into first year university. So it shaved a year off, since pre-university CEGEP was 2 years, with 3 years for university, vs. 4 years for university in the Maritimes. There were a lot of good students who did that, since CEGEP had a reputation for being largely devoted to partying, etc.

I also went to the Maritimes, but doing so in my day (early aughts) required 1 year of CÉGEP.


FWIW, when I taught in Québec, I definitely noticed that the students who'd been through CÉGEP were much better prepared--and stronger--in my intro classes. That noticeable difference disappeared by the time they got to intermediate classes, however.

Everyone teaching that I know who was hired in the last 15 years has a PhD, and, yes, the jobs are hard to get, at least in Montreal and Quebec City.

I also did my undergraduate in the Maritimes, way back in the day when Ontario still had grade 13. I'm not sure what deal the CEGEP students got, but there was definitely an age spread among the incoming traditional age students.

[Hibush]

Discussion about the fate of Wells College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/15/wells-college-exemplifies-which-institutions-stand-lose-most-pandemic.

What's not mentioned:

Wells was in deficit in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017. As of FY 2018, its FTE undergraduate enrollment was only 450 students. And it sits within about an hour's drive of Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY-Cortland, and SUNY-Oswego, in an area that has suffered economic and probably population decline because of de-industrialization.

President Gilbralter offers more candid insight in a podcast with a local reporter. It provides some good insight into the thinking that is going on behind the scenes at other places.

[spork]

WBUR Here & Now story on private colleges closing; mostly an interview with MacMurray College's president:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/05/13/coronavirus-small-college-closures.

[polly_mer]

WBUR Here & Now story on private colleges closing; mostly an interview with MacMurray College's president:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/05/13/coronavirus-small-college-closures.

Beverly Rodgers ended up closing MacMurray during her first year as president. She had been provost for a couple years and was only supposed to be president for a couple years per https://www.mac.edu/news/press-release/3671/macmurray-college-names-dr-beverly-rodgers-president

That indicates to me that somebody knew MacMurray was in trouble last summer.  "third year in deficit" from spork's article is definitely not good.  Hoping that a deal would get them through another year is not long-term thinking.

One of the comments under spork's article mentions half million dollar salaries.  No one at a place like MacMurray makes half a million dollars.  I'd be surprised if as many as five people including the president made more than $100k.

[Hibush]

WBUR Here & Now story on private colleges closing; mostly an interview with MacMurray College's president:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/05/13/coronavirus-small-college-closures.

Beverly Rodgers ended up closing MacMurray during her first year as president. She had been provost for a couple years and was only supposed to be president for a couple years per https://www.mac.edu/news/press-release/3671/macmurray-college-names-dr-beverly-rodgers-president

That indicates to me that somebody knew MacMurray was in trouble last summer.  "third year in deficit" from spork's article is definitely not good.  Hoping that a deal would get them through another year is not long-term thinking.

One of the comments under spork's article mentions half million dollar salaries.  No one at a place like MacMurray makes half a million dollars.  I'd be surprised if as many as five people including the president made more than $100k.

The president is quoted as saying, "Higher education is not nimble. We are steeped in tradition, and we are not always able to move as quickly as we need to."

That statement is apparently quite true for MacMurray, and a cause of its end. The statement is not true for higher education as a whole, though. in the vigorous part of higher ed, we are both steeped in tradition and nimble. Are leaders of the small, shrinking and non-nimble institutions in a bubble where they only talk with each other and read only the dire news in places like this thread?


The WBUR comments must have been edited because the "Humanist" no longer has a number attached to the claim that MacMurray's Marxist Methodists fleeced the proletariat to enrich themselves.

[TreadingLife]

WBUR Here & Now story on private colleges closing; mostly an interview with MacMurray College's president:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/05/13/coronavirus-small-college-closures.

Beverly Rodgers ended up closing MacMurray during her first year as president. She had been provost for a couple years and was only supposed to be president for a couple years per https://www.mac.edu/news/press-release/3671/macmurray-college-names-dr-beverly-rodgers-president

That indicates to me that somebody knew MacMurray was in trouble last summer.  "third year in deficit" from spork's article is definitely not good.  Hoping that a deal would get them through another year is not long-term thinking.

One of the comments under spork's article mentions half million dollar salaries.  No one at a place like MacMurray makes half a million dollars.  I'd be surprised if as many as five people including the president made more than $100k.

The president is quoted as saying, "Higher education is not nimble. We are steeped in tradition, and we are not always able to move as quickly as we need to."

That statement is apparently quite true for MacMurray, and a cause of its end. The statement is not true for higher education as a whole, though. in the vigorous part of higher ed, we are both steeped in tradition and nimble. Are leaders of the small, shrinking and non-nimble institutions in a bubble where they only talk with each other and read only the dire news in places like this thread?


The WBUR comments must have been edited because the "Humanist" no longer has a number attached to the claim that MacMurray's Marxist Methodists fleeced the proletariat to enrich themselves.

This has been the point I have been trying to make at my LAC. We aren't nimble. We see three to five majors total in a program with 4 to 5 full time faculty and refuse to reimagine the major, or to question whether that department would best serve the college with no major and more service-oriented courses that would fill.  But no, we have to offer "A Seminar in Tilting at Windmills" to our constant two seniors a year because they "need it to graduate" while other programs burst at the seams with 40+ students per class. Apparently we can't possible reallocate labor within an institution in a way that actually serves the needs of the majority of the students who are clearly voting with their feet. No, our primary objective is to continue to cater to the needs of the 4 to 5 faculty who like their status quo, who like their 2-4 person classes, and who don't want to see anything change, damned the sustainability of the entire institution.  Folks aren't nimble because they, selfishly, have no incentive to care about others. You would think it would be the job of administration to see this inefficiency and correct it, but that's not happening. Hence, we aren't nimble.

[polly_mer]

The problem I see is being nimble in a way that matters and knowing what was tried recently and abandoned.

For example, starting an online program was a great idea...more than ten years ago.  Doubling down on MacMurray's all-but-non-existent online program now is a lost cause.  The only growth possibility is the RN to BSN program on the national market.

MacMurray cut majors and then announced new majors with great fanfare in 2015..  Looking at MacMurray's current majors shows no entry for data analytics, the newish major that would be unique enough in the region to appeal to a reasonable number of different prospective students.


In Dec 2019, MacMurray announced a fundraising goal for this fiscal year that quoted Dr. Rodgers extensively regarding possible plans.
. Reading the plans indicate that Dr. Rodgers doesn't know what's already been tried in recent memory, nor why certain actions generally aren't taken like premed being almost nothing like a good BSN program.

[dismalist]

Have read on this thread and others of a widespread wish to have endowments for colleges to help pay a college's way. Well, having an endowment will not help at all, as the following explains, in contemporary communicationese, by a sitting university president:

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-university-president-responds-to-those-who-have-suggested-the-school-should-dip-into-the-endowment

:-)