Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[Hibush]

UW Madison is worried: https://www.chicagotribune.com/midwest/ct-uw-madison-financial-crisis-20200812-ntsvfnqtt5dh5glfze3lb6vbx4-story.html

One would expect UW Madison to be one of those flagship schools that is on the better end of the spectrum for many of the things that will pull a school through. However, they have had a governor and legislature that intentionally tried to cut off their ability to educate. Significant budget cuts was part of the picture. Tuition has barely increased. The trifecta is that they are not allowed to borrow to cover a short-term operating deficit.

The legislature made sure that the university has no safety net, so when the trapeze rope is fraying fast and the catcher has gone into quarantine, they can gleefully watch the fatal fall.

[polly_mer]

UW Madison is worried: https://www.chicagotribune.com/midwest/ct-uw-madison-financial-crisis-20200812-ntsvfnqtt5dh5glfze3lb6vbx4-story.html

One would expect UW Madison to be one of those flagship schools that is on the better end of the spectrum for many of the things that will pull a school through. However, they have had a governor and legislature that intentionally tried to cut off their ability to educate. Significant budget cuts was part of the picture. Tuition has barely increased. The trifecta is that they are not allowed to borrow to cover a short-term operating deficit.

The legislature made sure that the university has no safety net, so when the trapeze rope is fraying fast and the catcher has gone into quarantine, they can gleefully watch the fatal fall.

Yep, I was surprised to see Madison so bad off.

[Wahoo Redux]

UW Madison is worried: https://www.chicagotribune.com/midwest/ct-uw-madison-financial-crisis-20200812-ntsvfnqtt5dh5glfze3lb6vbx4-story.html

One would expect UW Madison to be one of those flagship schools that is on the better end of the spectrum for many of the things that will pull a school through. However, they have had a governor and legislature that intentionally tried to cut off their ability to educate. Significant budget cuts was part of the picture. Tuition has barely increased. The trifecta is that they are not allowed to borrow to cover a short-term operating deficit.

The legislature made sure that the university has no safety net, so when the trapeze rope is fraying fast and the catcher has gone into quarantine, they can gleefully watch the fatal fall.

Yep, I was surprised to see Madison so bad off.

There is a lot of surprisingly reactionary resentment in Wisconsin, very typical city mouse vs town mouse.  This notice could almost go over in the "privilege" thread.

Wonder how this will affect all the smaller outlaying satellite campuses.

Thanks Scott Walker!  Your economy is gonna hurt if U-Dub takes a dive.

[kaysixteen]

Surely there would be pretty massive opposition within the state of WI, overall, to the notion of the legislature's allowing financial catastrophe to hit UW-Madison, right?  OTOH, if this is NOT the case, what exactly would that be saying about the average (mostly non-college-educated) Wisconsinite's view about the continued efficacy, and/ or necessity, of having at least a strong *flagship* state univ campus in their state, and how likely would it be that such an attitude would be paralleled in other states?   And, if this is so, what would be the implications of this for the country as a whole?

[mamselle]

If we could get at the, the old forum had many references, over at least 8 years, to the progressive gutting of the WI system.

It's more a surprise to me that they've lasted this long.

M.

[kaysixteen]

Yes, I get that they have been doing that, but I am wondering why the average Wisconsinite thinks it is acceptable, and if these folks have thought through the implications of so doing?   I have my suspicions, of course, but it would be interesting to know more definitively....

[polly_mer]

Yes, I get that they have been doing that, but I am wondering why the average Wisconsinite thinks it is acceptable, and if these folks have thought through the implications of so doing?   I have my suspicions, of course, but it would be interesting to know more definitively....

City mouse/country mouse mostly covers it.  Madison is frequently described as 'N square miles surrounded by reality'.

Normal people in Wisconsin are not in favor of anything to do with Madison.  The hospital is viewed positively (well, except in July when the new residents start and medical care is worse for several weeks), but that's about it.  The university is not a positive, unlike other, smaller campuses that serve their regions well in educating teachers, nurses, engineers, and others.

Pretty much everything that non-academics dislike about the out-of-touch ivory tower dwellers is on full display at UW-Madison.  As Wahoo mentioned recently, people like Platteville and La Crosse.  People would pay money to see Madison shut down.

[kaysixteen]

OK, I get this too.   Like it or not, many ivory tower elite slac/ R1 faculty exist in what may well be described as a parallel universe from the rural Americans you describe.   I of course get my dear alma mater's alumni mag, which is essentially a house organ for the school, and some of the commentary and *described matter-of-factly as -everyone-knows-and-believes-this reality content astounds and often dismays me, and I ain't really all that similar to those rural middle Americans, even though I be an evangelical.   That said, however, Madison brings a lot to the state too, probably, taken as a whole, at least as much as those small regional state colleges that train the local ps teachers and lawyers-- do people not realize this, or is there hatred for the cultural stuff associated with Madison (and places like this in other states) so strong that they would ignore it?   Moreover, well, I suspect that another part of this problem is that, like it or not (and exactly counterintuitively to what one might expect in a time where having a college degree is so much more important to middle class status than ever before) the notion of sending one's kids to college, let alone helping them paying for it, AND the notion that a college ed is a good thing, has become pretty less popular, and often actively opposed, by many of these sorts of people, esp the older Fox news-type crowd.  I do not exactly know why this is, nor what to do about it.

[Wahoo Redux]

Success breeds resentment. 
Excellence breeds resentment. 
Difference breeds resentment.
The perception that some people have it better'n you even though you're the one working really hard breeds resentment.

We are a paradoxical people.

[polly_mer]

. That said, however, Madison brings a lot to the state too, probably, taken as a whole, at least as much as those small regional state colleges that train the local ps teachers and lawyers-- do people not realize this, or is there hatred for the cultural stuff associated with Madison (and places like this in other states) so strong that they would ignore it?   

Name five things that Madison brings to the state that are valued by the small farm communities.

I'll wait. 

I grew up near Madison and spent some time in grad school at UW-Madison.  In the big picture, having more scientists, engineers, and creative people (writers, directors, actors, musicians) are a net boon to society that provide things to make life easier and better.  However, it's really not clear that UW-Madison is the main driver of those good things in the state of Wisconsin or the nation.

It is clear that UW-Madison and the related community directly act against the best interests of the rural folks in many ways, especially by influencing the state government discussions to prioritize urban needs.  The continued protests on matters that are so disconnected from the priorities of the small towns don't help at all and divert resources/attention from the rural needs.

Having students focus on trivialities of diversity like pronouns or capitalizing specific identity words when there are real problems that just need volunteers is a recurring slap in the face.

The disconnect between what is claimed as the value of a college education and what students who come from very modest backgrounds get leads to a very bitter mindset against what many of the faculty at Madison promote.

Most people wouldn't be nearly as bitter about Madison if Madison were viewed as being mostly valuable STEM/medical like MIT or Caltech.

[Wahoo Redux]

Name five things that Madison brings to the state that are valued by the small farm communities.

<snip>

it's really not clear that UW-Madison is the main driver of those good things in the state of Wisconsin or the nation.

<snip>

Having students focus on trivialities of diversity like pronouns or capitalizing specific identity words when there are real problems that just need volunteers is a recurring slap in the face.

<snip>

The disconnect between what is claimed as the value of a college education and what students who come from very modest backgrounds get leads to a very bitter mindset against what many of the faculty at Madison promote.

Most people wouldn't be nearly as bitter about Madison if Madison were viewed as being mostly valuable STEM/medical like MIT or Caltech.

In a way it's good that you are simply letting the anger out, Polly.  No more pretenses.

I'm not an alumni of UW-M nor did I work at that campus.  But I know a bit about Wisconsin, its farm communities, and its higher education landscape.  I spent a fair amount of time there during the era of the failed Scott Walker recall before the whole country got a look at what a nut-job that guy is.  Elected by, I am sorry to say, the normal people of WI. 

I was never that big a fan of the city of Madison.  It is a unique landscape, but otherwise it is kind of a small, Midwesty, watered-down version of much cooler cities elsewhere.  And if one thinks Madison is an artsy-fartsy Bohemian "liberal" bastion or some such, boy howdy, get to a coast, look around for a while.  Many of the students I dealt with would not consider attending the UW-M even if they could have gotten in: after growing up in one of the many quaint little hamlets dotting cow country, Madison intimidated them.  These folks were literally scared of 'the big city.'  This is neither good nor bad, just context.

I do not want to denigrate the work of the small, outlaying satellite campuses.  They're very important and worthwhile, but they are not the same caliber as the mighty flagship-----not in terms of students, facilities, or faculty.  I've never seen so many "awards" given to people who, essentially, graduated and then held a job for a while. Obviously I don't want to get too specific since we all value the anonymity of the Fora, but I've seen it first hand in a number of ways.  I will say that I made use of the marvelous UW-M library on more than one occasion.

And, long before I had any idea I'd end up in the upper Midwest for a time, my family was the beneficiary of medical technology generated by the UW-M.  Specifically, literally, the doctor said to us, "There is this new treatment of the University of Wisconsin-Madison..."  And it was miraculous.  One of my immediate family owed hu's life to UW-M research. 

FWEIW, I grew up among country/town mice, some of whom aimed to become full-fledged country mice, some wanted to stay town mice, and some aspired to be city mice.  Wisconsin was not a shock to my system at all.

I think these are probably things most of us know and probably belongs on the privilege thread anyway. 

[apl68]

Yes, I get that they have been doing that, but I am wondering why the average Wisconsinite thinks it is acceptable, and if these folks have thought through the implications of so doing?   I have my suspicions, of course, but it would be interesting to know more definitively....

If the state flagship at Madison has indeed made little effort to build bridges with the state's rural communities, then polly may have a point there.  Kind of like a former school superintendent in our town.  She was active in professional associations, respected by her colleagues in other districts, and even won a couple of honors.  But in the midst of all that she was seldom available to meet with her local constituents.  Morale went down badly in the schools, the superintendent got on the wrong side of the school board, and she ended up being asked to leave.  I've often wondered whether some more care to make herself available to local parents and students wouldn't have helped the situation a lot.

I also wonder whether perhaps many voters in Wisconsin have supported the defunding of the university not because they have any particular hatred of higher education, but simply because they've been told that the university system had all kinds of waste and fat to cut and could be largely defunded without hurting anything truly essential.  So many voters just have no earthly idea what it costs to provide public services.  They may be about to learn that the wolf really was at the university's door.

[Wahoo Redux]

Yes, I get that they have been doing that, but I am wondering why the average Wisconsinite thinks it is acceptable, and if these folks have thought through the implications of so doing?   I have my suspicions, of course, but it would be interesting to know more definitively....

If the state flagship at Madison has indeed made little effort to build bridges with the state's rural communities, then polly may have a point there.

The campus has done much outreach.  And UW-M must accept a percentage of students from each part of the state so that Madison does not dominate the student body.

And frankly, having lived there, I never saw any great animosity toward UW-M, at least not among the younger generations.  The story of defunding is much more complicated than that and begins with Gov. Jim Doyle, Scott Walker's predecessor, who overspent and accumulated a tremendous deficit.  Walker (who had a pretty interesting trip through Marquette U.) took the reigns, rejected money from Obama because he was a Democrat, spent money on widening the highways because he thought it would be good for business, killed collective bargaining for all state employees, and generally did what conservatives do these days and stoked the culture wars for political gain.

Agronomy, biochem, engineering, teaching, medicine and big school sports all help the farming communities.

I also wonder whether perhaps many voters in Wisconsin have supported the defunding of the university not because they have any particular hatred of higher education, but simply because they've been told that the university system had all kinds of waste and fat to cut and could be largely defunded without hurting anything truly essential.  So many voters just have no earthly idea what it costs to provide public services.  They may be about to learn that the wolf really was at the university's door.

This is always the argument.  Some truth, of course, because we are imperfect.

[jimbogumbo]

. That said, however, Madison brings a lot to the state too, probably, taken as a whole, at least as much as those small regional state colleges that train the local ps teachers and lawyers-- do people not realize this, or is there hatred for the cultural stuff associated with Madison (and places like this in other states) so strong that they would ignore it?   

Name five things that Madison brings to the state that are valued by the small farm communities.

I'll wait. 

Why do you choose to do this? I could just as easily ask you to name five things that small farm communities bring to Madison.

It doesn't matter that you grew up near there. The same thing is true in virtually every state with universities and rural populations.

[Hegemony]

In the midwestern state I'm from, and in my small town in it, they're very proud of the state universities. There are two big ones, and the only controversy is which one is a superb institution and which one is a craven imposter that deserves never to win at sports. But whichever one they're for, which generally means the one either they or a relative attended, they're very much for it.