Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[dr_codex]

Back to the thread topic...

This school's geology department (discussed above, somewhere among all the verbiage) has responded to calls for its dismantling by re-vamping their program.

   https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2021/01/my-university-plans-terminate-my-department-we-re-trying-save-it

A good response? Too little, too late? What say the geologists here? (Do we have any left?--or have they given up in favor of nice, easily-read rock strata?)

M.

One thing that I notice is the absence of any data to support the intuition that students need the geosciences of today. I understand the impulse. Frankly, what do they have to lose by trying this, except opportunity cost? But it reads like a desperation move rather than something designed with partners in mind, or with any market research.

While reading it, however, I was reminded of a conversation with my own Dean about six months ago, in which it was suggested that we should consider a program overhaul as well. There's little enthusiasm for that project, but I'm wondering if I should find out if there's more behind it than I know.

Hmmmm.

dc

[apl68]

Back to the thread topic...

This school's geology department (discussed above, somewhere among all the verbiage) has responded to calls for its dismantling by re-vamping their program.

   https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2021/01/my-university-plans-terminate-my-department-we-re-trying-save-it

A good response? Too little, too late? What say the geologists here? (Do we have any left?--or have they given up in favor of nice, easily-read rock strata?)

M.

One thing that I notice is the absence of any data to support the intuition that students need the geosciences of today. I understand the impulse. Frankly, what do they have to lose by trying this, except opportunity cost? But it reads like a desperation move rather than something designed with partners in mind, or with any market research.

While reading it, however, I was reminded of a conversation with my own Dean about six months ago, in which it was suggested that we should consider a program overhaul as well. There's little enthusiasm for that project, but I'm wondering if I should find out if there's more behind it than I know.

Hmmmm.

dc

I understand the lack of enthusiasm.  By nature I love nothing better than to settle into a routine and stay there.  But the world just doesn't let any of us do that.

[marshwiggle]

Back to the thread topic...

This school's geology department (discussed above, somewhere among all the verbiage) has responded to calls for its dismantling by re-vamping their program.

   https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2021/01/my-university-plans-terminate-my-department-we-re-trying-save-it

A good response? Too little, too late?

From the article:

Three years ago, the same dean had asked us for help. His budget was in the red because enrollments were falling and a new budget system had moved money out of his college. The geology department had a few large, popular courses, but many of our upper-level classes were highly specialized, attracting only a handful of students. Fewer than 10 students a year majored in geology. We needed larger class sizes and more students to enroll as majors, the dean told us.

We ended up making changes only around the edges. We added new elective courses on climate, medical geology, and extraterrestrial life, which attracted hundreds of students—many from other departments. But we didn't change the course requirements for geology majors, and many professors continued to teach the same material in the same way. The number of majors didn't budge.

It's good to read the writing on the wall, rather than just admiring the penmanship.

[mythbuster]

I was recently at a seminar focused on understanding our university budget and where the sources of revenue come from. The person leading the session had broken down the math from student tuition and come to the calculation that every full time faculty needed to teach 300 students per year in order to "pay for themselves".
   Now I laughed at that number, as I frequently teach 300+ students per semester. But it made me wonder how many faculty, and how many entire departments, don't make this bar? How many don't even come close?
     I also wonder if the Geology department in question was given this kind of number so they understood the type and depth of change that needed to happen.  Not just you need to recruit more students, but how many more it would take?

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

Back to the thread topic...
This school's geology department (discussed above, somewhere among all the verbiage) has responded to calls for its dismantling by re-vamping their program.
   https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2021/01/my-university-plans-terminate-my-department-we-re-trying-save-it
A good response? Too little, too late? What say the geologists here? (Do we have any left?--or have they given up in favor of nice, easily-read rock strata?)

The article feels completely detached from job market.
E.g. example of revamping from article: We'd rethink all of our courses from scratch, focusing on problems that students—and their potential employers—care about. For instance, instead of simply teaching how rocks crack and weather away, we'd explore how those cracks affect the movement of polluted groundwater.
- currently groundwater is mentioned in a description of a single all-encompassing seminar course in Geology Department
- meanwhile their own Civil Engineering Department already has a course with all entry-level practical things about groundwater (hydraulics, well characteristics, aquifers, and use of numerical methods), which is probably just enough for their local market

I currently see three possible scenarios ensuring well-being of a geology department anywhere
- being in densely populated area with few competitors (but even their current 10 majors per year is probably an overkill in a state with 600k people)
- having a captive local market providing demand (e.g. multiple offices of mining companies nearby)
- being world-class in one or more subject areas with employment opportunities for undergrads (e.g. petroleum / hard rock mining / geophysics / groundwater etc)
They are 30 years late for building the last scenario with their entire faculty being classic geologists.

   Now I laughed at that number, as I frequently teach 300+ students per semester. But it made me wonder how many faculty, and how many entire departments, don't make this bar? How many don't even come close?

Overhead from research grants can change this calculation a lot.

[marshwiggle]

I was recently at a seminar focused on understanding our university budget and where the sources of revenue come from. The person leading the session had broken down the math from student tuition and come to the calculation that every full time faculty needed to teach 300 students per year in order to "pay for themselves".
   Now I laughed at that number, as I frequently teach 300+ students per semester. But it made me wonder how many faculty, and how many entire departments, don't make this bar? How many don't even come close?
     I also wonder if the Geology department in question was given this kind of number so they understood the type and depth of change that needed to happen.  Not just you need to recruit more students, but how many more it would take?

One problem is that people think they can solve the problem by having a few huge service courses. Especially if they are electives, then even though a single course may have 1000 students, it's just siphoning off students from other possible electives. The reall payoff is increased enrollment in required courses which respresents long term improvement.

[jimbogumbo]

William Paterson: https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/01/22/nj-university-could-cut-26-full-time-faculty-amid-budget-woes

[mamselle]

There's possibly an economic side to this, too, at least locally.

VT has had huge mining operations since the 18th c. at least, possibly late 17th; whether those continue to be profitable or competitive could be at issue: mica was later important for heat insulation in ovens and toasters, but is it, still?

Marble there is very sugary in texture, and erodes quickly, so it's no longer popular for memorials as it once was.

Other stuff in the mountains might be useful, but you'd truly have to know geology to figure out where to look for it.

Another case of applied vs. pure sciences, maybe.

M.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

VT has had huge mining operations since the 18th c. at least, possibly late 17th...

There is nothing even medium-sized by modern standards.

Another case of applied vs. pure sciences, maybe.

Its more about changing how industries operate. It used to take way more miners to produce a metric ton of coal. The same is true for geologists.
Mining companies used to be smaller and with more need for on-site geologists to provide operational support creating local demand for classic geologists. Nowadays, it is much easier to quickly get specialised help and many tasks can be done site unseen. So, this concentrates jobs near head offices. Additionally, many routine tasks are being automatised (e.g. I am aware of successful use of machine learning for core logging). Even more complicated tasks are much easier now (e.g. building 3D model from thousands of logs can be done in a matter of hours in simpler cases).
Large companies can select from much larger pool of candidates increasing competition (though being next to offices offering internships still helps tremendously).

[apl68]

William Paterson: https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/01/22/nj-university-could-cut-26-full-time-faculty-amid-budget-woes

As much as a quarter of their full-time faculty gone in one fell swoop!  Those are some extreme cuts.

[marshwiggle]

William Paterson: https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/01/22/nj-university-could-cut-26-full-time-faculty-amid-budget-woes

As much as a quarter of their full-time faculty gone in one fell swoop!  Those are some extreme cuts.

As is typically the case:

Administrators at the university are facing a budget deficit as the COVID-19 pandemic exacerbates pre-existing enrollment challenges, said Stuart Goldstein, William Paterson's vice president for marketing and public relations, according to NJ.com.

With apologies to Billy Joel, "[covid] didn't start the fire...."

[jimbogumbo]

William Paterson just did this in Spring 2019: https://www.wpunj.edu/reslife/prospective-students/our-residence-halls/skyline-hall

[brixton]

Did The College of St. Rose in Albany make it to the thread?  I went back to see and couldn't find it.  They are cutting a boat load of programs/TT jobs.  One wonders what the end game is here.


CUTS:

Undergraduate programs:
Art
1. Design Media Arts (BS)
2. Graphic Design (BFA)
3. Studio Art (BFA)
4. Studio Art (BS)

Music
5. Music (BA)
6. Music Performance (BM)
7. Music Education K-12 (BS)

Mathematics
8. Mathematics (BA)
9. Mathematics: Adolescence Education (BS and BS/MSED in Special Education)

Science and Technology
10. Biology-Cytotechnology (BS)
11. Biology: Adolescence Education (BS and BS/MSED in Special Education)
12. Chemistry (BS)
13. Medical Technology (BS)
14. Information Technology (BS and BS/MS)

Business
15. Financial Planning (BS and BS/MBA)
16. Business Economics (BS)

Concentrations
Business Administration: Financial Planning Concentration
Business Administration: Accounting and Audit Concentration

Master's degrees:
Education
1. Higher Ed Leadership and Administration (MSED)
2. College Student Services Administration (MSED)
3. Literacy grade 5-12 (MSED)
4. Literacy birth-12 grade (MSED)

Business and Technology
5. Business Analytics (MS)
6. Information Technology (MS)

Advanced certificates
1. Financial Planning Advanced Certificate
2. Literacy birth-grade 12 Advanced Certificate
3. Quality Control in Higher Education Advanced Certificate

[mamselle]

Is there anything left?

M.

[apl68]

Is there anything left?

M.

Well they don't mention cutting history or modern languages, but something tells me that's probably because those are probably already gone.