Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[Hibush]

Gosh, nobody is leaving Duke or Emory as far as I know.

They *are * leaving the small colleges  in the rural areas outside of the cities between DC and Atlanta.

I mean specifically the children of the aristocrats of Raleigh-Durham or Atlanta. Is it still de rigeur to go to those schools and then become a local civic and business leader?

[polly_mer]

Gosh, nobody is leaving Duke or Emory as far as I know.

They *are * leaving the small colleges  in the rural areas outside of the cities between DC and Atlanta.

I mean specifically the children of the aristocrats of Raleigh-Durham or Atlanta. Is it still de rigeur to go to those schools and then become a local civic and business leader?

Any national name brand institution with real resources  like Duke or Emory is pretty safe, but an alumnus will be in a different set of circles than HYP alumni.

The places at risk are the institutions like Super Dinky was 40 years ago: a regional leader where the alumni network was strong and well represented on everything that matter in a 100-mile radius.  Now people with means will pick a bigger name on the national radar for the networking possibilities or pick somewhere to learn specific skills. 

The days of attending the good regionally-known private for the signalling effect and four years of networking are over.  The networking has to be on a larger scale as does the signalling effect.  Actually having the skills is important for the local businesses.  Having the contacts at the state and multistate level is more important than ever for the regional folks who understand the current situation and predictable future.  Anyone who is still focused on only the tri-county area is setting themselves up for failure.

[polly_mer]

A contrasting theme, for those who worry about the fate of the 0.1%.

A recent article argues that an existential threat to regional elite colleges is the national homogenization of the super elite. This has crippled the value proposition of fancy regional schools, and turned a few once-local schools into the national magnets.

A few generations ago, it was assumed that the sons of the local gentry would remain in the area and rise to high office in local and state business, politics, and philanthropy—goals that were best served if they attended a local elite college and joined the right fraternity, rather than being educated in some other part of the country. College was about upper-class socialization, not learning, which is why parochial patricians favored regional colleges and universities.

While the regional elites are unlikely to end up on the lists we tend to review to find topics for this thread, it might be interesting to keep an eye out. Which ones are having trouble getting the full-pay local students who either feel compelled to go the the national school, or see less expensive local options as being equivalent in educational and social value?

This isn't the 0.1%; this is the 20% no longer being feeling limited to what's available within a hundred-mike radius.

That article is also dominated by an East Coast view of the US and completely ignores places where being white makes one obviously a newcomer whose family hasn't been leading in everything that matters for the past four hundred years.  The US isn't really the 13 colonies with some new additions, no matter how many times East Coast folks paint that narrative.

[Ruralguy]

Yes, there are many states where you go to a school in the state system, or you don't go to college (more or less, I know that's never 100% true). There isn't much discussion of SLACs at all, let alone elites and non-elites.

Also, California is more or less its own entity in this regard with a mammoth state system, plus a number of extremely highly regarded privates (some large, some smaller).

So, yeah, I say "pheh!" to the East Cost -centric view.

But, back to playing a long a bit, I don't think its so much that many students want to go out of a 100 mile radius, its:

1. there's a decreasing student population, and there just aren't enough in the low end or mushy middle to fill those low ranked tiny schools.

2. Of those who are willing to even consider tiny schools, they'd probably prefer to at least compete for, and maybe even get, a seat at one of the many state school branches that a lot of states have (especially the coasts, but not exclusive to them). A number of these branches might be, say, 200 miles from the applicant, but in the same state. So, yeah, they are more willing to go to a state branch far away than a tiny school that's more than 100 miles away.

3. Too many of the tiny schools either have a quirky mission, are too liberal arts oriented or some other thing (too bogged down by geography or bad history).

But, yes, the net effect is that fewer and fewer students are going to these tiny schools and more will close in the next decade or two (if it even takes that long).

[spork]

Gosh, nobody is leaving Duke or Emory as far as I know.

They *are * leaving the small colleges  in the rural areas outside of the cities between DC and Atlanta.

I mean specifically the children of the aristocrats of Raleigh-Durham or Atlanta. Is it still de rigeur to go to those schools and then become a local civic and business leader?

Any national name brand institution with real resources  like Duke or Emory is pretty safe, but an alumnus will be in a different set of circles than HYP alumni.

The places at risk are the institutions like Super Dinky was 40 years ago: a regional leader where the alumni network was strong and well represented on everything that matter in a 100-mile radius.  Now people with means will pick a bigger name on the national radar for the networking possibilities or pick somewhere to learn specific skills. 

The days of attending the good regionally-known private for the signalling effect and four years of networking are over.  The networking has to be on a larger scale as does the signalling effect.  Actually having the skills is important for the local businesses.  Having the contacts at the state and multistate level is more important than ever for the regional folks who understand the current situation and predictable future.  Anyone who is still focused on only the tri-county area is setting themselves up for failure.

Though not exactly on the I-85 corridor that I originally mentioned, I'll throw out Hampden-Sydney College, oldest private college in the South, as an example. Alumni include bankers, judges, etc. My guess is that 150 years ago a diploma from Hampden-Sydney was a pretty strong signal of one's aristocratic pedigree in the area between Richmond and Roanoke.  Today, if a scion of an elite upper-class family living anywhere in Virginia gets into Hampden-Sydney, William and Mary, UVA, and Princeton, well, that 18-year old is not going to enroll at Hampden-Sydney. 

[Hibush]

Also, California is more or less its own entity in this regard with a mammoth state system, plus a number of extremely highly regarded privates (some large, some smaller).

So, yeah, I say "pheh!" to the East Cost -centric view.

This is so true. In many Western states, the towns are not old enough to have the kind of aristocracy that developed elsewhere.

Leland Stanford was a robber baron, titan of industry and governor of California. But there was no California school for him to have gone to to reach his own elite people. That kind of multigenerational patrician society didn't exactly exist for him to enter as a young man. He went to the trouble of founding a school for future Bay Area elites, but that didn't really get going until the 20th century.

If you look at the local politicians and non-tech industrialists in the South Bay, the University of Santa Clara stands out as being the place to go for a certain local elite. Stanford has gone on to become a national brand that the article describes as drawing the top students who would have gone to the regionals. Is that affecting the choice of aristo students coming out of San Jose, Los Gatos & Saratoga relative to 20 or 30 years ago?

Are the other California examples?

[Ruralguy]

Pomona (and others of the Claremont Colleges).

[jimbogumbo]

I'm assuming that Pomona and almost all of the Annapolis Group draw 75-80% of their students from out of state?

[polly_mer]

Also, California is more or less its own entity in this regard with a mammoth state system, plus a number of extremely highly regarded privates (some large, some smaller).

So, yeah, I say "pheh!" to the East Cost -centric view.

This is so true. In many Western states, the towns are not old enough to have the kind of aristocracy that developed elsewhere.

Santa Fe, New Mexico has been continuously settled for longer than most of the East Coast.  Running for public office in New Mexico without mentioning how many generations one's family has been in New Mexico marks one as an outsider who will have trouble.  Even admitting to being first generation is better than ignoring the expectation of what makes a true New Mexican.  In Texas, the saying is "I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could".

People who have degrees from East Coast or West Coast universities downplay them in public life.  It's much better to have gone to one of the regional comprehensives to show you are normal than to have an elite East Coast degree.  Being a Lobo, an Aggie, or a Techie is much better than going to HYP. 

The people running things here do not act like Bostonians, but there's definitely social strata and moving between them without following the rules is problematic.  The snooty academics who ignore regional differences in favor of assuming New England is always the desirable top will continue to have blind spots about how the US functions

[dismalist]

I follow this thread closely.

While I sympathize with the concentration of posts on individual institutions, it is harder to swallow the last, say, dozen or so, contributions concerning regional patterns of preferences.

All this, if it exists or ever existed, is being competed away by lower transport costs [parking aside], or as someone upthread called it, globalization. Yes, some have students from China, if not county X.

Clearly, this is difficult for individuals working at vulnerable institutions, but it is not a problem for higher education in the US.

In addition, moreover, explaining the parts of a phenomenon is not an explanation of the whole phenomenon. Aristotle?

Compete, baby, compete.

[Ruralguy]

Spork,

From my knowledge of Virginia and other nearby southern colleges, I'd say your conclusion regarding Hamden-Sydney is probably correct, though they suffer from a particularly peculiar mission (all male). They have a decent endowment though. Anyway, there are a dozen or so similar schools between Roanoke and the ocean. Most of them suffer from similar problems, only one of them being lowering of local stature. Some of them probably only have a decade left. I doubt any of them have most of a century. But, hey, let's not pick on the south. Plenty of small colleges in PA, NY, etc. probably also won't be around in 2100 (and some not in 2030).

[Parasaurolophus]

Not a college for the eastern elite, but how's the University of Mississippi doing?

[Mobius]

I had never realized that Concordia was a kind of "brand name" for Lutheran schools around the country.  There were 10 at the beginning of the last decade.  Now there are only six.  Wonder whether they can preserve those?

Where do you get six?  https://lutherancolleges.org/our-colleges/ lists 38 institutions.

Bethany College has had financial problems enough that my MIL asked me pointed questions as part of being an officer representative  to the national church conference.  In 2017, Bethany was on probation with the HLC for planning and institutional research along with concerns related to finances https://www.hlcommission.org/?option=com_directory&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1269 . I know individuals at Bethany College and have given them the red flags warnings suggesting they apply out.

Bethany pays some incoming TT faculty around $38k. Hard to attract decent faculty at that rate.

[dismalist]

But Cost of Living is low, presumably with USA = 100:

Bethany cost of living is 77.4
           Bethany   West Virginia
Overall   77.4          78.1
Grocery   97.1           95.8
Health   97.5          106
Housing   47.4          41.7

Hell, housing is free!

[dr_codex]

Update on Ithaca College: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/02/08/growing-resistance-against-cuts-ithaca?utm_source=Inside+Higher+Ed&utm_campaign=ba782277d9-DNU_2021_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1fcbc04421-ba782277d9-236510958&mc_cid=ba782277d9&mc_eid=adf482cc60