Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[little bongo]

There's a point where you try to de-escalate, and there's a point where you back off and let the authorities handle it. Assistant prof seemed to mean well in dealing with a loose cannon, but grabbing the sign was an error.

[mahagonny]

The very sad underlying principle in all of these is that civility is viewed as some sort of moral failure by activists on all sides of issues. Two-year olds have tantrums; developing self-control takes a lot of time and work. Unfortunately, we live in a society where actions by someone on the right "side", (whatever that is), are lauded even when they are extreme, and by people who should know better, like educators, journalists, and politicians.

Agreed, but at this date, is it realistic to expect college age people to behave better than their elders did during the George Floyd riots?

[D@mnD@n1el]

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

[smallcleanrat]

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

He was suspended then reinstated after a few weeks.

He seems to be pursuing a lawsuit for the suspension. His description of what happened focuses largely on the actions of the particular dean who suspended him, apparently without regard to university policy.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/why-i-am-suing-ucla?s=r

He mentions that UCLA's Academic Freedom Committee spoke out in his defense and that the office that handles discrimination claims stated that this incident did not warrant an investigation.

There's a change.org petition to have the dean fired, but I don't know that it's getting much attention.

[Caracal]

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

I'll regret wading into this, but that's not really an accurate description of what happened. All he had to say in response to this email was that he understood the student's concerns, but that it would violate university rules to make a final optional for some students but not all, and simply making the final optional for everyone at the last minute isn't something he could do either. Then just add that, of course, if there were students who were struggling with this in a way that would make it difficult for them to take the exam, I would obviously work with them and allow an incomplete if possible. I might be tempted to also tell this white student that I wouldn't want to make blanket assumptions about how black students are handling this...

Instead the guy decided that this was a good moment to quote MLK and preen. I would never write something to a student in that tone-it's obnoxious and its punching down as a professor. Do I think it should have gotten him suspended? No, I don't. He was acting like a jerk, but it was within the bonds of professional and academic discourse. He's not some hero though.

[D@mnD@n1el]

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

I'll regret wading into this, but that's not really an accurate description of what happened. All he had to say in response to this email was that he understood the student's concerns, but that it would violate university rules to make a final optional for some students but not all, and simply making the final optional for everyone at the last minute isn't something he could do either. Then just add that, of course, if there were students who were struggling with this in a way that would make it difficult for them to take the exam, I would obviously work with them and allow an incomplete if possible. I might be tempted to also tell this white student that I wouldn't want to make blanket assumptions about how black students are handling this...

Instead the guy decided that this was a good moment to quote MLK and preen. I would never write something to a student in that tone-it's obnoxious and its punching down as a professor. Do I think it should have gotten him suspended? No, I don't. He was acting like a jerk, but it was within the bonds of professional and academic discourse. He's not some hero though.

I do agree with you Caracal about how he may have not approached things in the best manner but I believe that the main point that they shouldn't get a no harm final exam is there. So I believe that what he said was right, just the way he said it was wrong.

[marshwiggle]

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

I'll regret wading into this, but that's not really an accurate description of what happened. All he had to say in response to this email was that he understood the student's concerns, but that it would violate university rules to make a final optional for some students but not all, and simply making the final optional for everyone at the last minute isn't something he could do either. Then just add that, of course, if there were students who were struggling with this in a way that would make it difficult for them to take the exam, I would obviously work with them and allow an incomplete if possible. I might be tempted to also tell this white student that I wouldn't want to make blanket assumptions about how black students are handling this...

I wouldn't go that far. Back when Lady Diana died, I remember people being in tears over it; not relatives, or people who lived in the UK or had even visited there, but just had this "celebrity drama" moment. It bothers me because it cheapens the real grief of people who are entitled to it.

If a relative or close friend of George Floyd wasn't up to the exam because of grief, that would be one thing, but someone who hadn't heard his name until a few days prior but who was that *broken up is not going to be able to handle normal life.


*Many of those who claim to be are probably just trying to get out of an exam; i.e. "any port in a storm".

[mahagonny]

I believe if the students started playing in the wrong sandbox (and maybe even breaking the law), they deserve a little ridicule that, given the asininity of the request, was, if anything, soft pedaled. I'm one of the ones cheering when the loony left gets a dose of reality they can't handle.
Explaining why you grade as you do is part of being available to students.

This would have been an interesting plot twist: the white students pressure the professor to change his grading to more leniency because of the George Floyd incident. The professor says 'oh...all right, since you feel that strongly.'  The black students then take legal action to remedy their having been deprived of being awarded the proper grades, to which they are entitled by having paid tuition.

What sucks is that lots of times educators are fired even if they do something right so in this case there is a UCLA prof who gets fired for a short amount of time because some of the black students ask for no test and the teacher replies that it isn't fair to the other students and what should he do if a student is half white half black.

Here is an article about it: https://www.the-sun.com/news/962623/professor-suspended-refusing-black-students-leniency-george-floyd/

I'll regret wading into this, but that's not really an accurate description of what happened. All he had to say in response to this email was that he understood the student's concerns, but that it would violate university rules to make a final optional for some students but not all, and simply making the final optional for everyone at the last minute isn't something he could do either. Then just add that, of course, if there were students who were struggling with this in a way that would make it difficult for them to take the exam, I would obviously work with them and allow an incomplete if possible. I might be tempted to also tell this white student that I wouldn't want to make blanket assumptions about how black students are handling this...

I wouldn't go that far. Back when Lady Diana died, I remember people being in tears over it; not relatives, or people who lived in the UK or had even visited there, but just had this "celebrity drama" moment. It bothers me because it cheapens the real grief of people who are entitled to it.

If a relative or close friend of George Floyd wasn't up to the exam because of grief, that would be one thing, but someone who hadn't heard his name until a few days prior but who was that *broken up is not going to be able to handle normal life.


*Many of those who claim to be are probably just trying to get out of an exam; i.e. "any port in a storm".

How about the pregnant lady whose home was invaded by George Floyd and his criminal pals. If she were a student she could ask for an accommodation for the temporary stress experienced from hearing his name, after trying to move on from the trauma. Black Lives Matter, anyone?

[jimbogumbo]

I'm making a standing offer: I will pay for whatever streaming service is best for this purpose FOR YOU for one year if you will watch (start to end, no Cliff/Spark or whatever) both of:

Eyes on the Prize
Attica

Attica was 50 years ago, and Eyes on the Prize chronicles the history of the Civil Rights movement until about the 1980s. If you cab watch either without at least some rethinking of your position I'll give up.

And yes, Black Lives Matter.

[mahagonny]

I'm making a standing offer: I will pay for whatever streaming service is best for this purpose FOR YOU for one year if you will watch (start to end, no Cliff/Spark or whatever) both of:

Eyes on the Prize
Attica

Attica was 50 years ago, and Eyes on the Prize chronicles the history of the Civil Rights movement until about the 1980s. If you cab watch either without at least some rethinking of your position I'll give up.

And yes, Black Lives Matter.

You want to find out who I am by setting up communications. Sorry.
I can afford to rent movies.
Maybe I'll think of a homework assignment for you and we can compare notes later. But at the moment I think I've already given up.

[marshwiggle]

I'm making a standing offer: I will pay for whatever streaming service is best for this purpose FOR YOU for one year if you will watch (start to end, no Cliff/Spark or whatever) both of:

Eyes on the Prize
Attica

Attica was 50 years ago, and Eyes on the Prize chronicles the history of the Civil Rights movement until about the 1980s. If you cab watch either without at least some rethinking of your position I'll give up.

I haven't seen anyone on here complaining much about goals or achievements of the civil rights movement 40 or 50 years ago; the issue is with some of the extremes in the last couple of decades, and the the last decade in particular.
(As John McWhorter has said, he'd like to see discussions of race go back to about what they were mid '90's.)

[jimbogumbo]

I'm making a standing offer: I will pay for whatever streaming service is best for this purpose FOR YOU for one year if you will watch (start to end, no Cliff/Spark or whatever) both of:

Eyes on the Prize
Attica

Attica was 50 years ago, and Eyes on the Prize chronicles the history of the Civil Rights movement until about the 1980s. If you cab watch either without at least some rethinking of your position I'll give up.

I haven't seen anyone on here complaining much about goals or achievements of the civil rights movement 40 or 50 years ago; the issue is with some of the extremes in the last couple of decades, and the the last decade in particular.
(As John McWhorter has said, he'd like to see discussions of race go back to about what they were mid '90's.)

Watch Attica. And if you think things have changed that much, remember that police have been exonerated in almost (almost, not all) all shootings of young Black men. They weren't convicted in the Rodney King trial. In the Eric Garner case. For shooting and killing the unarmed, not threatening anyone homeless man in LA in the early 2000s. The young man in Minnesota in his car telling them he had a carry permit. Again and again and again. At least 30 times in the past five years.

So it happens once in a case that was so heinous, so unbelievable and seen by so many and of course, everything has changed, no hard feelings.

Just keep on quoting McWhoreter. Or Sowell. Or whoever else the latest voice is. And we'll be having the same discussion 10 years from now.

[marshwiggle]

And if you think things have changed that much, remember that police have been exonerated in almost (almost, not all) all shootings of young Black men.

How often are police found guilty in the killing of young white men?

[jimbogumbo]

And if you think things have changed that much, remember that police have been exonerated in almost (almost, not all) all shootings of young Black men.

How often are police found guilty in the killing of young white men?

IMO, not often enough. That, however, is beside the point re how Blacks feel in the US, and clearly has no analogue in terms of whites being discriminated against. This isn't a debate to me about whether or not we are a racist nation. We were, and things have changed for the better. The discussion has always beeb centered on what problems still exist, and how to make them better.

Do you not see that the many of the people that things were done to 50 years ago are still alive? And that even if they think things are better, they still see many of those same things happening now?

[mahagonny]

And if you think things have changed that much, remember that police have been exonerated in almost (almost, not all) all shootings of young Black men.

How often are police found guilty in the killing of young white men?

IMO, not often enough. That, however, is beside the point re how Blacks feel in the US, and clearly has no analogue in terms of whites being discriminated against. This isn't a...

Try not to get yourself all worked up. it's bad for your blood pressure.

I would trust a random black American of any occupation more than I would trust a random contemporary full time academic to respond reasonably to true information about numbers of white, black and other Americans who are unjustly killed by police. Thing is so many are misinformed about how the numbers break down race-wise, and the more liberal you are, the more misinformed you're likely to be. Statistically, any way. One should suspect lefty academics are more likely to be dishonest or intransigent than misinformed, given their education.

Instead the guy decided that this was a good moment to quote MLK and preen. I would never write something to a student in that tone-it's obnoxious and its punching down as a professor.

Disagreeing with liberals on a college campus is punching down? Hardly.