Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[mahagonny]

I was not being stupid. I was asking a question, because I'm not really familiar with West. I may not agree with everything he says, but I do say for Chrissake, let him talk. Actually he sounds like he would liven things up. Something the lefties in Buffalo could use more of.
That's what the thread is about, speakers getting cancelled. They literally disrupted the show with noise, then had to throw a hissy fit afterward. that took a lot of guts, liberals.
I expect they flipped out as soon as they heard the swearing, e.g. 'All Lives Matter.' Some of them probably flipped out as soon as they heard their friends would.
I would probably still agree with him more often than I would agree with people who say men should have a right to have babies and nurse them, or more than I would agree with your hero at Rutgers, Brittney Cooper, who thinks society would be better without white people.
Saying you hate Obama because he's an idiot is not fascism.

[Wahoo Redux]

Well, first of all, find out who West [or whoever] is.

Then sure, let them talk.  Don't cancel their presentation.

But don't be surprised when intemperate talk receives an intemperate reaction.  Freedom of speech works both ways.

I am never for violence, but I'm okay with shouting back.  If speakers are irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses they are going to get a shouted down because rational debate and discussion will not work with them.  West is not interested in discussion, he is interested in extremism and propaganda.

This is why I keep urging you to go to One American News.

[mahagonny]

Not if they were banging on the door from the outside. Then they were objecting not to what he said, but to who they think he is and the fact that he was allowed on campus. Cancel culture at its purest and most harmful.

[marshwiggle]

I am never for violence, but I'm okay with shouting back.  If speakers are irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses they are going to get a shouted down because rational debate and discussion will not work with them. 

You do realize that this is in the eye of the beholder; i.e. extremists from both sides of an issue think the other side are "irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses" and would use the same tactics to silence them if allowed.

In that world, the only people who can get to speak are expressing completely anodyne pablum. "Grass is green; air is good."

[mahagonny]

I am never for violence, but I'm okay with shouting back.  If speakers are irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses they are going to get a shouted down because rational debate and discussion will not work with them. 

You do realize that this is in the eye of the beholder; i.e. extremists from both sides of an issue think the other side are "irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses" and would use the same tactics to silence them if allowed.

In that world, the only people who can get to speak are expressing completely anodyne pablum. "Grass is green; air is good."

+1, moreover

West is not interested in discussion, he is interested in extremism and propaganda.

Is an assumption about someone's thought process that, even if it were a matter of consensus (it is not) is an assumption.

[Wahoo Redux]

West is not interested in discussion, he is interested in extremism and propaganda.

Is an assumption about someone's thought process that, even if it were a matter of consensus (it is not) is an assumption.

Walk your talk, mahagonny. I have read enough of your comments to know that you are blowing a wee bit of mierda there.

[Wahoo Redux]

I am never for violence, but I'm okay with shouting back.  If speakers are irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses they are going to get a shouted down because rational debate and discussion will not work with them. 

You do realize that this is in the eye of the beholder; i.e. extremists from both sides of an issue think the other side are "irrational, propagandistic, divisive, and just plain jackasses" and would use the same tactics to silence them if allowed.

Granted.  That is why I keep posting on this thread. 

But you can look at West's comments, admitted cherry-picked, and factcheck them to see if they are accurate-----and they are not.  They are incendiary political hyperbole and propaganda. 

An objective person (and the civil court system) would probably agree that Oberlin University owes Gibson's Bakery an apology and a wee bit of change.  The question has less to do with "sides" and everything to do with decorum, rational behavior, and honesty. 

[mahagonny]

An objective person (and the civil court system) would probably agree that Oberlin University owes Gibson's Bakery an apology and a wee bit of change.  The question has less to do with "sides" and everything to do with decorum, rational behavior, and honesty.

They do not apologize. Maybe that's why the award was as high as it was. To make the point that racism is not cool.

[mahagonny]

This statement bothers you?

"When more Americans prefer freebies to freedom, these great United States will become a fertile ground for tyranny."
-- Allen West

Wow. Is it demonizing someone?

[Wahoo Redux]

Think it through, Big M.

[mahagonny]

Think it through, Big M.

I would think you would either engage with the question or not comment at all, rather than just act like a pest.

[marshwiggle]

Think it through, Big M.

I would think you would either engage with the question or not comment at all, rather than just act like a pest.

I have to agree with that, Wahoo. Whenever you make comments like that, including to me, I have no idea what actual point you're assuming I get.

[Wahoo Redux]

Think it through, Big M.

I would think you would either engage with the question or not comment at all, rather than just act like a pest.

I have to agree with that, Wahoo. Whenever you make comments like that, including to me, I have no idea what actual point you're assuming I get.

This is why I tend not to engage with you two guys.

This is more divisive hyperbole filled with loaded words?  Do neither of you see that?

Okay:

1) this is a slippery slope argument without any backing.  How are "freebies" going to lead to "tyranny?"  That is simply hysterical propaganda. 

2) "freebies" are part of the favorite mythology of lowbrow conservatives that somehow they are the hard working people and everyone else is on the public dole. 

3) "freebies" is often used as a pejorative for people of color, many of whom are still working through the 500 years of racial inequity in North America.

4) on the face of it West's comment is idiotic.  "Tyranny" does not come from "freebies"; tyranny comes from totalitarian governments.

Really, you two, use your brains.

[marshwiggle]

Think it through, Big M.

I would think you would either engage with the question or not comment at all, rather than just act like a pest.

I have to agree with that, Wahoo. Whenever you make comments like that, including to me, I have no idea what actual point you're assuming I get.

This is why I tend not to engage with you two guys.

This is more divisive hyperbole filled with loaded words?  Do neither of you see that?

Okay:

1) this is a slippery slope argument without any backing.  How are "freebies" going to lead to "tyranny?"  That is simply hysterical propaganda. 

2) "freebies" are part of the favorite mythology of lowbrow conservatives that somehow they are the hard working people and everyone else is on the public dole. 

3) "freebies" is often used as a pejorative for people of color, many of whom are still working through the 500 years of racial inequity in North America.

4) on the face of it West's comment is idiotic.  "Tyranny" does not come from "freebies"; tyranny comes from totalitarian governments.

Really, you two, use your brains.

I'm not psychic, so I can't claim to know exactly what anyone else means when they say "freebies". However, given all of the stories in the news over the past few years about Big Tech use of personal data, it's pretty clear that there are lots of valid concerns about services that people perceive as "free" and how those "free"services do in fact compromise peoples' privacy at the very least, whether that counts as "freedom" or not.

Much of your criticism seems to be based on ideas about what "freebies" is supposed to be subtly referring to. I've never heard West, but there's a saying that's been around for ages that says "If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is". Government service may be viewed as "free" if individuals don't directly pay for them. but the important thing people need to understand about anything that appears "free" is that someone, somewhere is paying for it.  Only when you understand how and by whom a "freebie" is being financed can you decide if it's a good idea or not.
(I say this as a Canadian who thinks universal healthcare is great; but it's far from "free". It's a good use of tax revenue.)

[mahagonny]

This is why I tend not to engage with you two guys.

LOL you follow marshy around like a dog follows a guy with bacon strips in his pocket.