Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[jimbogumbo]

Awright I have been cogitatin' on it, and I guess, what the hey, I will answer the question as to why it is I have been so strident in my views here.  Put simply, there are several factors: 1) I believe that, irrespective of religious views on the matter, non-monogamous sexual relationships ,and indeed any sexual relationships outside of a one man-one woman marital one, are greatly injurious to public morality, the family, children, etc., and my religious views only intensify and solidify my thinking here, 2) I am concerned about the tendency amongst ostensibly bible-believing evangelicals to ignore scriptures that violate the trends and fashions of the day, and these not only including those concerning sexual mores, and, like it or not, well, ahem.... 3) I am concerned that our acceptance of alternative sexual mores (including abortion on demand) greatly risks our country being punished by God.  I get that this last thing is likely very strange to almost all of ye here, but it is what it is.   I read the scriptures, and I do not like what I find.

Thanks for further explanation. My sister and her wife are of completely monogamous and legally married. So in that case it would simply be that they are gay that is your issue, correct?

[marshwiggle]

But student newspapers, for instance, have forever been very easily enraged. Even if their cause is good, they are anything but measured in their response. Anyone here seen a student newspaper that was not extremely outspoken?

I find the teapot-tempests on FOX News, occasionally on CNN, and always on Newsmax, One American News and the like.  These are the publications driving the culture wars.

I have actually never seen a grenade in a student newspaper.

I hate to keep asking this (and usually no one answers), but what student newspapers are you talking about?  I'm just asking.

How about "The Oracle", which you linked to, which was the voice of outrage in this story?

[Wahoo Redux]

But student newspapers, for instance, have forever been very easily enraged. Even if their cause is good, they are anything but measured in their response. Anyone here seen a student newspaper that was not extremely outspoken?

I find the teapot-tempests on FOX News, occasionally on CNN, and always on Newsmax, One American News and the like.  These are the publications driving the culture wars.

I have actually never seen a grenade in a student newspaper.

I hate to keep asking this (and usually no one answers), but what student newspapers are you talking about?  I'm just asking.

How about "The Oracle", which you linked to, which was the voice of outrage in this story?

??????????

I went back and reread the articles in question.  They are very straight forward news reporting.  They are actually well written.

An event happened on campus and they covered it objectively.

Specifically, what is "enraged" in either article?  Did I miss something?

[marshwiggle]

But student newspapers, for instance, have forever been very easily enraged. Even if their cause is good, they are anything but measured in their response. Anyone here seen a student newspaper that was not extremely outspoken?

I find the teapot-tempests on FOX News, occasionally on CNN, and always on Newsmax, One American News and the like.  These are the publications driving the culture wars.

I have actually never seen a grenade in a student newspaper.

I hate to keep asking this (and usually no one answers), but what student newspapers are you talking about?  I'm just asking.

How about "The Oracle", which you linked to, which was the voice of outrage in this story?

??????????

I went back and reread the articles in question.  They are very straight forward news reporting.  They are actually well written.

An event happened on campus and they covered it objectively.

Specifically, what is "enraged" in either article?  Did I miss something?

How about the title of the first article?

"WHO BELONGS?
Classroom incident and administrative response raise questions for Muslim students."

The implication is that "belonging" in an institution implies never feeling uncomfortable. While the fact that the prof told people ahead of time, and gave them the option of not being there, the article assumes implicitly that the discomfort of students is the only important issue; whether or not the class was fulfilling the educational mission of the institution, or even whether the prof's actions were consistent with institutional policies were irrelevant.

How about the title of the second article:

"Conversation combats media perpetuated fear
American-Islamic Relations director challenges the hateful narrative of Islamophobia."

Given all of the reasons that the professor may have shown those images in the context of the class, the most likely interpretation assumed by the article is animosity to Muslims, including Muslim students in the class.

Objectivity? Not remotely.

[Wahoo Redux]

So that's it, huh? The headlines.  Bolded for emphasis, no less. 

Reeeeeeeaaaaally reaching buddy.

Again, those are pretty generic headlines that give a very basic overview of the articles (which it is not clear you actually read) and hopefully encourage patrons to read.

Not that it matters much anymore, but how should the headlines read? 

[marshwiggle]

So that's it, huh? The headlines.  Bolded for emphasis, no less. 

Reeeeeeeaaaaally reaching buddy.

Again, those are pretty generic headlines that give a very basic overview of the articles (which it is not clear you actually read) and hopefully encourage patrons to read.

The tone of the first article, which is indicated by its title, is that there is no real question of whether or not the prof's actions were reasonable, and that the administration's response was not sufficiently quick or punitive.

Imagine there were conservative Christian students offended by an evolutionary biology class. Wouldn't it be legitimate to discuss when the educational goals of the institution ever supersede the religious sensibilities of some students?

There would be a lot of value in an objective article about how institutions have to approach issues like this, but this wasn't it.

Not that it matters much anymore, but how should the headlines read?

The headlines were an accurate representation of the tone of the articles; that's exactly the problem.

[Wahoo Redux]

Nah, Marshy.  The articles interviewed people from all angles and explained the situation in standard newspeak. 

You just made one of your typical dramatic blanket statements and, as usual, had nothing to back it up so you are pretending all sorts of things and throwing in a little martyrdom to cap it all off.

[ciao_yall]

I read the articles and don't understand the problem.

How is showing centuries-old paintings "Islamophobic?" Is talking about evolution "anti-Christian?"

This reminds me of the story of the USC linguistics professor accused of using the n-word.

That said, both of these were in a virtual, rather than an in-person environment. I recall being in in-person class having lively discussions about potentially offensive topics and being able to read the room and manage the vibe. Yet in one online class, a student was very upset about the topic and when she finally shared, was audibly upset. I was supportive of her and think it calmed things down, still, had we been in the room I could have seen her reaction as it was happening.

Also it's a good things she spoke up in class rather than waiting for things to really build.

[apl68]

I read the articles and don't understand the problem.

How is showing centuries-old paintings "Islamophobic?" Is talking about evolution "anti-Christian?"

This reminds me of the story of the USC linguistics professor accused of using the n-word.

That said, both of these were in a virtual, rather than an in-person environment. I recall being in in-person class having lively discussions about potentially offensive topics and being able to read the room and manage the vibe. Yet in one online class, a student was very upset about the topic and when she finally shared, was audibly upset. I was supportive of her and think it calmed things down, still, had we been in the room I could have seen her reaction as it was happening.

Also it's a good things she spoke up in class rather than waiting for things to really build.

That's a good point.  It's not only lab courses that just don't translate well to online.

[Langue_doc]

I read the articles and don't understand the problem.

How is showing centuries-old paintings "Islamophobic?" Is talking about evolution "anti-Christian?"

I too don't understand the problem or even why the professor was fired. According to the Oracle article, as noted in "The New Lines Magazine",  https://newlinesmag.com/argument/academic-is-fired-over-a-medieval-painting-of-the-prophet-muhammad/

a faculty member had included in their global survey of art history a session on Islamic art, which offered an optional visual analysis and discussion of a famous medieval Islamic painting of the Prophet Muhammad.

...the university's associate vice president of inclusive excellence (AVPIE) declared the classroom exercise "undeniably inconsiderate, disrespectful and Islamophobic."

The painting in question, according to the article, is

...is an authentic and irreplaceable work of art. It is included in one of the earliest Islamic illustrated histories, which often describe the biography of Muhammad and other historical events.

I have to agree with the article that

The essay's censorship and the subsequent email by two top university administrators raise serious concerns about freedom of speech and academic freedom at the university.

What on earth is an associate vice president of inclusive excellence? Who comes up with such titles?!

[Anon1787]

What on earth is an associate vice president of inclusive excellence? Who comes up with such titles?!

The DEI Commissar has no particular expertise in the field and yet presumes to determine what is appropriate course content. I don't have much sympathy for overpaid, over-titled adminicritters who behave so cravenly.

[dismalist]

What on earth is an associate vice president of inclusive excellence? Who comes up with such titles?!

The DEI Commissar has no particular expertise in the field and yet presumes to determine what is appropriate course content. I don't have much sympathy for overpaid, over-titled adminicritters who behave so cravenly.

Christ! Even if the DEI Commissar had expertise in the field, his/her influence would be deadening to the knowledge finding and transmission enterprise, probably more so.

I am sorry to have to repeat the notion that it's best to let these places do whatever the hell they please. There are well over 3000 colleges and universities in the US and they can't all be crazy. For one thing, the more expensive the private, the crazier the policy. For another, public colleges are obliged to respect free speech. 

So, there's plenty of choice. If the rich want to dumb themselves down, let them. :-)

[apl68]

What on earth is an associate vice president of inclusive excellence? Who comes up with such titles?!

The DEI Commissar has no particular expertise in the field and yet presumes to determine what is appropriate course content. I don't have much sympathy for overpaid, over-titled adminicritters who behave so cravenly.

This is the sort of thing that pretty much does the critics of "woke" education's work for them.  With stuff like this happening, they really don't have to work that hard to try to paint a picture of "wokism" run amok.

[Wahoo Redux]

FIRE open call to Hamline to reinstate the instructor in question:

https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-calls-hamline-university-reinstate-art-history-instructor-dismissed-showing-medieval

The story is getting a fair amount of press.

[marshwiggle]

FIRE open call to Hamline to reinstate the instructor in question:

https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-calls-hamline-university-reinstate-art-history-instructor-dismissed-showing-medieval

The story is getting a fair amount of press.

Unless it's possible to make administrators grow a spine, that's not going to happen. Even if it did, you can be darn sure that everyone who teaches there has been given a pretty clear idea of how heavy the bus is under which they will be thrown if/when the mob comes for them. The chill will remain, even if somehow the prof is rehired.

"Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia! Not me!"