Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[marshwiggle]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

[ciao_yall]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

What if someone were obese and had real, large breasts? And preferred to not wear a bra for whatever reason?

[marshwiggle]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

What if someone were obese and had real, large breasts? And preferred to not wear a bra for whatever reason?

I believe the original class (as shown in some of the pictures) was a shop class, i.e. with power tools so that there was even a question of whether safety protocols were violated. (And implicitly there's the question of whether there is any limit to what might be considered reasonable in prosthetics, for any reason.)

[Kron3007]

Maybe not, but to accept it. Tells me what to think.

Mission statements don't tell you what to think. They do tell you what the institution values, such as... student success. And the success of students from diverse backgrounds.

So if you don't think student success is important or valuable, then you are probably in the wrong field. Or at least in the wrong institution. And... it's a free country.

But that's the first thing we're arguing about [not the only thing]: Diversity means uniformity!

Free country?

"When words lose their meaning, people lose their freedom."
-- attributed to Confucius

You are the one losing the meaning of the words here.  When I say diversity, that is actually what I mean diversity.  It would even include people like you who disagree with the wording of the mission statement (since I suspect you actually don't encourage racism or prejudice, and actually do support the intent of the statement).     

[Wahoo Redux]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

Why do you need to know if she is "legitimate," Marshy?  Why not mind your own business?

[marshwiggle]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

Why do you need to know if she is "legitimate," Marshy?  Why not mind your own business?

I don't need to know if she is "legitimate". The school board is in a difficult spot, and if this is just someone trying to push the boundaries, it could be only the beginning of progressively more outrageous attempts. By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

[Wahoo Redux]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

[marshwiggle]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

[little bongo]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

You've just equated what a transgender teacher decides to wear with Nazis, the Klan, and someone committing indecent exposure. The quote above is where you did so. Any response that begins, "I'm not saying transgender people are like Nazis or the Klan..." is not going to sound terribly convincing.

[Wahoo Redux]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

You've just equated what a transgender teacher decides to wear with Nazis, the Klan, and someone committing indecent exposure. The quote above is where you did so. Any response that begins, "I'm not saying transgender people are like Nazis or the Klan..." is not going to sound terribly convincing.

This is always the tactic when we want to censor a group of people, right along with "For God's sake, won't someone think of the children!" kind of rhetoric, both of which the current Republican movement is rife with.  Mind you, it is not just conservatives who do this----plenty of liberal-minded people go this same route.

When one cannot come up with an actual objection to a belief or behavior, equate it to the Nazis or Klan or some such. 

No one is dressing like a Nazi, Marshy.  People just want to dress as they see fit in safety.

At his height, Jon Stewart brilliantly satirizes this trend in political discourse:

https://www.cc.com/video/xrdazj/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-a-relatively-closer-look-hitler-reference

[Kron3007]

So does that include requiring students and parents to use the person's chosen pronouns; in this case "they/them"? If so, would that also apply if the person's chosen pronouns were "YourMajesty" (or something like "killalll<whatver>")?

It's, at a bare minimum, polite to use one's chosen pronouns.

One could attempt to change one's pronouns to something offensive and try to run it up the court system to see what happens.

Not specifically about pronouns, but something similar may already be happening.
School board where trans teacher wears huge fake breasts will order dress code for staff

What's really fascinating is that it's not clear whether this is a "genuine" trans person, or whether it's someone trying to push the boundaries to get a reaction. The irony is that requiring nothing more than self-identification implicitly forbids actually even raising the question of whether this is "legitimate" or not.

Why do you need to know if she is "legitimate," Marshy?  Why not mind your own business?

I don't need to know if she is "legitimate". The school board is in a difficult spot, and if this is just someone trying to push the boundaries, it could be only the beginning of progressively more outrageous attempts. By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

I recall hearing similar slippery slope arguments about gay marriage.  Essentially, if we allow gay marriage, the next thing you know people will want to marry chickens etc.  I have yet to see anyone marry a chicken.

[marshwiggle]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

You've just equated what a transgender teacher decides to wear with Nazis, the Klan, and someone committing indecent exposure.

Just like people advocating gun control are equating police and military personnel with mass murderers.

[Wahoo Redux]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

You've just equated what a transgender teacher decides to wear with Nazis, the Klan, and someone committing indecent exposure.

Just like people advocating gun control are equating police and military personnel with mass murderers.

And these people are using the same sort of hysterical hyperbole that the [some] conservatives use when knitting their pantaloons into knots over things like transgendered teachers.

Is there a reason you bring the peaceniks up?

[Kron3007]

By following an implicit principle that people should be able to present themselves however they want, this is simply one illustration of how awkward things could get.

Absolutely.  Who says we should "be able to present" ourselves however we want!?  What an outrageous proposition in a free country bound by the First Amendment!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty much an enemy of freedom on this, since I think coming to work in Nazi regalia or Klan robes shouldn't be allowed.
Heck, I even think coming to work stark naked shouldn't be allowed. I guess I'm an authoritarian zealot.

You've just equated what a transgender teacher decides to wear with Nazis, the Klan, and someone committing indecent exposure.

Just like people advocating gun control are equating police and military personnel with mass murderers.

And these people are using the same sort of hysterical hyperbole that the [some] conservatives use when knitting their pantaloons into knots over things like transgendered teachers.

Is there a reason you bring the peaceniks up?

I think it was meant as some sort of "gotcha" moment, but falls flat since no one here has supported equating cops with mass murderers.  Suggesting the police service needs reform and oversight is a far cry from equating  them with mass murderers...

 

[Parasaurolophus]

But also, the comment is ostensibly about gun control...

When I advocate for very strict gun control, it's definitely not on the grounds that cops and soldiers are mass murderers.