Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[dismalist]

Two of the six discontinued Seuss titles was among the top 20 Amazon sellers. Thus, the company is throwing away money. People don't throw away money voluntarily.

Here's a link to Amazon's top selling Children's books. I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I don't think the estate is giving up much of anything in the way of profits.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Childrens/zgbs/books/4/ref=zg_bs_nav_b_1_b

Can't refind my source. It was an article. But if you are right, the story is even simpler:

By not publishing the books, Seuss gives up nothing. Free virtue signalling!

[ciao_yall]

Well, it is a good way of pointing out that there is no objectionable content in the books they continue to sell.

I loved the Little House series as well as Dr. Seuss, and those were my go-to when buying books for children, whether they be holiday or birthday presents, donations to gift drives, whatever. I was horrified to learn that there was objectively racist content in these... I didn't remember those aspects, but it bothers me that some child saw themselves reflected poorly because of my own cluelessness. I had meant well in wanting to share positive memories and stories, and, well, missed the boat.

So it's a good way of giving a "Seal of Approval" as it were, that those of us who aren't in the habit of rereading every children's book we fondly remember, that these are still good books to give to a variety of today's children who live in a multicultural world.

[marshwiggle]

Sorry if this has already been cited (from Cheatseat):

The Dr. Seuss books that have been pulled were not very popular. Last year, Green Eggs and Ham sold 338,000 copies, while Oh, the Places You'll Go! sold 513,000 copies, the New York Times reported. In comparison, And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street sold 5,000 copies, while lesser-known titles like McElligot's Pool and The Cat's Quizzer "haven't sold in years" through retailers BookScan tracks.

Very surprised to hear that To Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street was selling that poorly.  Relatively speaking--5,000 copies a year is not bad for a back-list title that's over 80 years old.

But it may make sense as a "strategic withdrawal". Preemptively discontinuing it may have been worth it if they feared an eventual boycott of the entire Seuss canon. Sacrificing a single* goat on the altar of wokeness may have avoided eternal damnation of the entire flock. Not to mention licensing deals, etc.


(*or a half dozen relatively small ones)

[Caracal]

Its rather telling that rather than trying to defend those ideas or beliefs, all we get is a lot of whining about how terrible it is that someone could face social or professional consequences for saying things that others find repugnant.

I love your post, but...well...we have seen a rash of people whose careers actually are threatened by saying things like "all lives matter," which many find rightly offensive, I think, but is a topical political opinion nevertheless. 

We can't pretend there is not a PC mania out there that is ALSO dangerous.

I honestly see limited evidence that there is much of this happening. Mostly what you see is just being people being criticized. JK Rowling isn't in jail, nor is she ruined. Some people just don't like her anymore. For the most, the only examples you can find of people really having their careers destroyed is when they did something far beyond the pale. I thought it was telling that Andrew Cuomo tried to claim he was a victim of cancel culture. He's being accused of harassing and assaulting women.

There's also nothing that new about the idea that your employer might not appreciate being linked to ideas they don't like or they think other people won't like. Even so, it isn't like you just see lots of people getting fired from their middle management job because they tweeted "all lives mattered."

[mahagonny]

Its rather telling that rather than trying to defend those ideas or beliefs, all we get is a lot of whining about how terrible it is that someone could face social or professional consequences for saying things that others find repugnant.

I love your post, but...well...we have seen a rash of people whose careers actually are threatened by saying things like "all lives matter," which many find rightly offensive, I think, but is a topical political opinion nevertheless. 

We can't pretend there is not a PC mania out there that is ALSO dangerous.

I honestly see limited evidence that there is much of this happening. Mostly what you see is just being people being criticized. JK Rowling isn't in jail, nor is she ruined. Some people just don't like her anymore. For the most, the only examples you can find of people really having their careers destroyed is when they did something far beyond the pale. I thought it was telling that Andrew Cuomo tried to claim he was a victim of cancel culture. He's being accused of harassing and assaulting women.

There's also nothing that new about the idea that your employer might not appreciate being linked to ideas they don't like or they think other people won't like. Even so, it isn't like you just see lots of people getting fired from their middle management job because they tweeted "all lives mattered."

Not much of anyone dares to. But for you and any other readers who seem to have been living a fallout shelter for the last ten years, off the top of my head, here's
https://meaww.com/sandra-sellers-georgetown-law-professor-racist-comments-black-students-plain-bottom

[Wahoo Redux]

Its rather telling that rather than trying to defend those ideas or beliefs, all we get is a lot of whining about how terrible it is that someone could face social or professional consequences for saying things that others find repugnant.

I love your post, but...well...we have seen a rash of people whose careers actually are threatened by saying things like "all lives matter," which many find rightly offensive, I think, but is a topical political opinion nevertheless. 

We can't pretend there is not a PC mania out there that is ALSO dangerous.

I honestly see limited evidence that there is much of this happening. Mostly what you see is just being people being criticized. JK Rowling isn't in jail, nor is she ruined. Some people just don't like her anymore. For the most, the only examples you can find of people really having their careers destroyed is when they did something far beyond the pale. I thought it was telling that Andrew Cuomo tried to claim he was a victim of cancel culture. He's being accused of harassing and assaulting women.

There's also nothing that new about the idea that your employer might not appreciate being linked to ideas they don't like or they think other people won't like. Even so, it isn't like you just see lots of people getting fired from their middle management job because they tweeted "all lives mattered."

Well, I was thinking of this which was the subject of another thread some time ago:

Principal fired for post about BLM

Or this which was just in the news:

Professor fired for saying her worst students were black

Or this which seems perfectly preposterous to me:

Professor suspended for saying Chinese word sounds like English slur

Or this one also recently in the news:

Professor fired for racist and homophobic tweets

Or this one from this last summer:

Petition demands firing of NC professor for 'racist' tweets on George Floyd protesters

Which is (maybe) not the same as the UPS worker who want on what he thought was essentially a soliloquy, not realizing that he was being recorded by a doorbell camera.

And is (maybe) not the same thing as this poor slob Consultant fired after making racist comment during Vermont Senate Transportation Committee video call because he said something during a break in the Zoom conference.

Or even this bombshell dumbazz who clearly has problems, but still....

And all I did was put "fired for racist" into Google.  These are only on the first couple of pages.  So with due respect, I disagree.

I totally understand that corporations do not want to be associated with people who say these sorts of things----it tarnishes their images and maybe hurts business...but we should also be aware that we are policing people's ideas, even if their ideas are really problematic and reprehensible.   

[Caracal]

Its rather telling that rather than trying to defend those ideas or beliefs, all we get is a lot of whining about how terrible it is that someone could face social or professional consequences for saying things that others find repugnant.

I love your post, but...well...we have seen a rash of people whose careers actually are threatened by saying things like "all lives matter," which many find rightly offensive, I think, but is a topical political opinion nevertheless. 

We can't pretend there is not a PC mania out there that is ALSO dangerous.

I honestly see limited evidence that there is much of this happening. Mostly what you see is just being people being criticized. JK Rowling isn't in jail, nor is she ruined. Some people just don't like her anymore. For the most, the only examples you can find of people really having their careers destroyed is when they did something far beyond the pale. I thought it was telling that Andrew Cuomo tried to claim he was a victim of cancel culture. He's being accused of harassing and assaulting women.

There's also nothing that new about the idea that your employer might not appreciate being linked to ideas they don't like or they think other people won't like. Even so, it isn't like you just see lots of people getting fired from their middle management job because they tweeted "all lives mattered."

Well, I was thinking of this which was the subject of another thread some time ago:

Principal fired for post about BLM

Or this which was just in the news:

Professor fired for saying her worst students were black

Or this which seems perfectly preposterous to me:

Professor suspended for saying Chinese word sounds like English slur

Or this one also recently in the news:

Professor fired for racist and homophobic tweets

Or this one from this last summer:

Petition demands firing of NC professor for 'racist' tweets on George Floyd protesters

Which is (maybe) not the same as the UPS worker who want on what he thought was essentially a soliloquy, not realizing that he was being recorded by a doorbell camera.

And is (maybe) not the same thing as this poor slob Consultant fired after making racist comment during Vermont Senate Transportation Committee video call because he said something during a break in the Zoom conference.

Or even this bombshell dumbazz who clearly has problems, but still....

And all I did was put "fired for racist" into Google.  These are only on the first couple of pages.  So with due respect, I disagree.

I totally understand that corporations do not want to be associated with people who say these sorts of things----it tarnishes their images and maybe hurts business...but we should also be aware that we are policing people's ideas, even if their ideas are really problematic and reprehensible.

I think you're making my point for me. Look at those examples.

The Michigan professor tweeted that Covid was a jewish conspiracy, talked about a "jewish mafia" and called various people the N word on twitter Its actually worse than that though. Apparently, he frequently spent his classes railing about how cell phones were some sort of evil conspiracy. The only mitigating factor is it seems quite likely he has untreated mental illness. He wouldn't even meet with the dean, however. Of course they fired him. Do you think that guy should be teaching?

The UNCW guy wasn't fired, he actually retired and got a 500,000 payment from the university to go away, before committing suicide. He was a pretty unpleasant character who clearly enjoyed going right up to the line.

The contractor used a racist slur while he was on mic on a Zoom call with the legislature for his job. I don't really know what the backstory is there, but that's the sort of thing that is just going to get you fired and there's nothing new or concerning about that. Ditto for the UPS worker. Most companies don't really want their employers insulting their customers.

The sports reporter is a media personality. She gave an interview where she said a bunch of dumb stuff. Seems like a pretty easy call. Presumably, she got fired because there are plenty of Chinese, Jewish and Mexican people who watch basketball and baseball games in Florida. I can't imagine what the important principle is supposed to be here.

Some of the other things are a little less clear cut. The thing with the principal seems like an overreaction to me. The business professor thing was a bit more complicated, and he seemed clueless, but it also seemed like a misunderstanding and then a panicked overreaction by the administration. I think he was actually reinstated. The Georgetown professor thing is a little complicated.

Basically, though, you have a bunch of people who were fired for very good reasons because companies don't want to be identified with bigots. A few might have been an overreaction. None of it amounts to some massive restriction on free speech and expression.

[Wahoo Redux]

I think you're making my point for me. Look at those examples.

No.  I made my point. 

I know exactly what those examples are.  These people are entirely reprehensible, I agree.  But they were fired or forced out because they said the wrong things, no matter how truly awful they were.

That should send a chill.

Basically, though, you have a bunch of people who were fired for very good reasons because companies don't want to be identified with bigots. A few might have been an overreaction. None of it amounts to some massive restriction on free speech and expression.

I disagree.  "overreaction" is a problem.  And "massive restriction on free speech" is subjective.  Again, I don't feel the least bit sorry for these people, but we are on a slippery slope.

[financeguy]

These are problematic, but what's chilling to me is that it doesn't matter if a statement is true or not, only if it is "offensive" to someone. The Georgetown example sums that up for me. She didn't draw the line to the "mismatch theory" with affirmative action policies in place, she just observed the outcome of it, which is those students not admitted primarily based on merit are....wait for it.... not at the top of the class. Shocking. But still "offensive." What she said is way less direct that what Amy Wax has said at Penn law, but she is tenured so they just removed her from teaching any required classes. She will thus only teach in her specialty.  She has made numerous comments about the race/iq debate and its effect on admissions, including some that got national headlines on Glen Loury's podcast. You might agree or disagree with the Charles Murray side of the argument on this issue that she supports, but most people who do don't care if the points are factually correct or even know what they are. You can bet any amount of money that if Wax were a 20 year adjunct like the Georgetown faculty member she'd have been out the door before the first tweet were typed.

[Wahoo Redux]

Many of these are horrible people...but we cannot pretend there is not a lot of this going around.

Donald Trump did not come from a void.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/nyregion/nypd-james-kobel-racist-fired.html

https://www.themuse.com/advice/yes-you-can-get-fired-for-your-social-media-posts-9-times-people-learned-this-lesson-the-hard-way

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/06/19/racism-celebrities-fired-for-their-racist-comments/3208619001/

https://www.nbcmiami.com/responds/man-gets-fired-after-private-chat-about-race-goes-public/2280929/

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Albany-officer-fired-for-racist-comments-15868423.php

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/us/nypd-official-racist-posts-fired/index.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/01/15/professor-fired-classroom-conduct-following-racist-posts

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arizona-man-arrested-fired-job-after-racist-rant-caught-camera-n1244978

https://news.wttw.com/2021/01/19/city-worker-fired-after-making-racist-violent-facebook-comments-during-protests-watchdog

https://www.scarymommy.com/gina-carano-fired-mandalorian-racist-posts/

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle-police-officer-fired-for-racist-slur/281-e63a4d3f-e05a-4d91-b942-2f2e257db926

https://www.inman.com/2021/02/17/california-agent-fired-after-racist-verbal-attack-on-asian-woman/

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/12/23/brooklyn-criminal-court-officer-is-fired-over-vile-racist-facebook-post/?slreturn=20210215190351

https://fortune.com/2020/06/04/racist-violent-social-media-firings-grant-napear-craig-gore/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/football-coach-fired-stacey-abrams_n_5ff73b79c5b6c0ae2e73435b

https://kutv.com/news/local/woman-fired-over-pictures-she-calls-anti-racist-but-her-employer-says-promote-violence

https://kmph.com/news/local/customer-goes-on-racist-rant-after-bar-cuts-him-off

https://www.newsweek.com/man-fired-racist-rant-slavery-lynchings-black-people-1514043

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/woman-fired-after-viral-video-shows-her-screaming-racist-and-homophobic-slurs-at-rally-07-07-2020

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/three-north-carolina-police-officers-fired-racial-slurs-video/

https://www.albanyherald.com/news/tifton-nurse-practitioner-fired-for-racist-facebook-post/article_2bf1a870-b8a2-11ea-970c-fb8001dbc58b.html

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/18/pennsylvania-police-officer-fired-racist-email-erie/3219586001/

Etc...

[Puget]

I think you're making my point for me. Look at those examples.

No.  I made my point. 

I know exactly what those examples are.  These people are entirely reprehensible, I agree.  But they were fired or forced out because they said the wrong things, no matter how truly awful they were.

That should send a chill.

Basically, though, you have a bunch of people who were fired for very good reasons because companies don't want to be identified with bigots. A few might have been an overreaction. None of it amounts to some massive restriction on free speech and expression.

I disagree.  "overreaction" is a problem.  And "massive restriction on free speech" is subjective.  Again, I don't feel the least bit sorry for these people, but we are on a slippery slope.

The first amendment protects the right of free speech vis-a-vis the government-- it doesn't protect you from the consequences of your speech vis-a-vis other private citizens or entities.

People never have had free speech at work. If you say something at work your employer doesn't like there are consequences, and always have been.  Things get tricky if people are getting fired for things they say outside of work, but many of these incidents happened at work, where you absolutely always have and can be fired for saying something reprehensible, or just displeasing to your customers/clients/bosses.

[mahagonny]

The first amendment protects the right of free speech vis-a-vis the government-- it doesn't protect you from the consequences of your speech vis-a-vis other private citizens or entities.

People never have had free speech at work. If you say something at work your employer doesn't like there are consequences, and always have been.  Things get tricky if people are getting fired for things they say outside of work, but many of these incidents happened at work, where you absolutely always have and can be fired for saying something reprehensible, or just displeasing to your customers/clients/bosses.

The tenured are the bosses. That's why your view is as accepted in academe as anywhere else. At least among those who were invited to participate in the poll.

Who stuck up for Professor Sandra Sellers' right to due process? (crickets)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/georgetown-law-professor-terminated-remarks-black-students/story?id=76413267

[Wahoo Redux]

I could get fired for calling my dean a "crap-weasel" or saying all sorts of things having nothing to do with race, gender, orientation, social class or whatever. 

Yes, we know that about saying the wrong thing at work.  It's always been that way.

But we have a phenomenon above.  Part of my response is to the notion that there is not a lot of this going on----which is simply untrue.   

And a number of those are things that happen when people are not a work, which is very problematic.

[Caracal]

I think you're making my point for me. Look at those examples.

No.  I made my point. 

I know exactly what those examples are.  These people are entirely reprehensible, I agree.  But they were fired or forced out because they said the wrong things, no matter how truly awful they were.

That should send a chill.

Basically, though, you have a bunch of people who were fired for very good reasons because companies don't want to be identified with bigots. A few might have been an overreaction. None of it amounts to some massive restriction on free speech and expression.

I disagree.  "overreaction" is a problem.  And "massive restriction on free speech" is subjective.  Again, I don't feel the least bit sorry for these people, but we are on a slippery slope.

Slippery slope to what? In a lot of these cases, the speech goes directly to ability to perform the job. Police officers who write racist social media posts should be fired. Is that even in question? These are people who carry guns and are empowered by the state use lethal force if necessary .  It seems pretty alarming if they are posting on social media about their hatred for blacks and jews, no?

In the case of the catering company employee who was screaming racial slurs at a woman in a car and making references to lynching, I would assume that any sensible employer isn't going to want that guy anywhere near their workplace. When there's a lawsuit about a hostile work environment, would you want to be the person who said, "oh, well, I saw that video where he screamed at that that women that she should be a slave, but I figured he wouldn't bring his personal beliefs to the job."

Academic freedom issues are a bit trickier. It is pretty clear that posting that phones are mind control devices and cause COVID are protected by academic freedom. If you bring that stuff up in your classes, that's a different issue. At some point it also becomes a concern about your ability to do your job. Is the Jewish kid in this guy's class going to feel comfortable telling him he won't be in class on Yom Kippur? However, none of this applies to any of these other things.

[mahagonny]

Slippery slope to what?

To flagrantly dishonest types like you running things.