Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[jimbogumbo]

So: he's blatantly unqualified to teach the subject and in that department (and clearly does a bad job of it, given what he describes of his own pedagogy); despite that, his contract kept getting renewed every year and he was promoted. He just quit because his university was so committed to employing him that it wouldn't fire him. What a whiner.

How do his qualifications compare to Nikole Hannah-Jones?

Marshy, you understand that Hannah-Jones is a practitioner who teaches what she practices, right?

So should this apply to every discipline?

Should someone with a Master's degree in any subject (as I believe Hannah-Jones has in journalism) be able to get tenure in their filed as long as they've done something "notable"?

Not for every discipline, but for some disciplines, yes.

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

The only way you'd get a job on the tenure track without PhD though would usually be because you are a celebrity. Phylicia Rashad, for example. So as far as being in the running simply because you are great at what you do, forget it. Adjunctsville for you.

As lightning explained, this simply isn't true in creative fields (for many of which the doctoral credential basically doesn't exist).

This link takes you to the Howard Department of Media, Journalism and Film. There are four full time faculty listed, three with an MA. None is a celebrity.

https://communications.howard.edu/index.php/mjfc/

[Wahoo Redux]

So should this apply to every discipline?

Should someone with a Master's degree in any subject (as I believe Hannah-Jones has in journalism) be able to get tenure in their filed as long as they've done something "notable"?

Why not?

[dismalist]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god's name are these subjects even part of universities?

[marshwiggle]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

[mahagonny]

Well, no. He's proposing a watchdog organization--pretty standard, anodyne stuff. Not my friend, but he seems a good fellow. I do disagree strongly with him in one crucial area, though. Clearly, the Department of Anti-Racism should be called DOAR.

What would your DOAR do about the disproportionate rate at which white Americans are murdered by black Americans? It fits the definition of something that needs to be addressed. Homicide is equally illegal for all races, but the result that statistically any random black individual (most likely male) is more likely to kill a white person than any random white individual is to kill a black person, is a 'racist' outcome for which 'the system' is responsible. Who gets to decide what the remedy is? "Black Lives Matter"? A committee appointed by Kendi? Why not Richard Spencer, since what the 'Black Lives Matter' movement, whom the government will by then have officially endorsed, is actually promoting is tribalism. What would be a reasonable timetable for resolution of the problem?

You have an interesting (troubling?) habit of assigning ownership and intimacy to those with whom you are in disagreement ("your" DOAR; "your" friend, etc.). Might want to look into that.

If a person or an agency effectively combats racism, everyone benefits. A happier society is probably less violent, yeah? I don't know if the problem can be RESOLVED, exactly, especially since we're probably talking about something as old as Ogg punching Krodak in a cave somewhere because Krodak's skin was darker or something. But the overall arc is toward improvement, I think. Dr. Kendi's plan is potentially as good (or as ineffective) as any I've encountered--might be worth trying.
[/quote]

OK, let's do that then.
I do recall a recent incident of blatant mass racism in which the mostly non-black voters of California voted to keep a beleaguered and clueless governor, because the alternative would have been Larry Elder, who is black. There couldn't possibly be any other reason to vote that way. If we don't get a government DOAR agency we should riot.
ETA: The black people who voted to keep Gavin Newsom were a bunch of Uncle Toms.
Point being, although a democrat-appointed DOAR would never consider such a position seriously,  anyone can decide anything is racist. There's no meeting of the minds. Only a power struggle.
ETA: The real problem that never gets resolved, but only worked on incrementally, is how can we ever get enough government bloat that favors our party?

[jimbogumbo]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

The Indiana University Department of Journalism was established in 1911, so not exactly a recent phenomenon.

[dismalist]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

The Indiana University Department of Journalism was established in 1911, so not exactly a recent phenomenon.

Moronicity can begin earlier. I just took their admissions advice quiz. Says I'd be good for game design. They're doing a wonderful job, as a research university.

[mahagonny]

more in response to little bongo's liberal wisdom that he reads way too much of, written by a  handful of puny academic (and other) minds:

If a person or an agency effectively combats racism, everyone benefits. A happier society is probably less violent, yeah? I don't know if the problem can be RESOLVED, exactly, especially since we're probably talking about something as old as Ogg punching Krodak in a cave somewhere because Krodak's skin was darker or something.

We don't know why Ogg punched Krodak. Maybe they need to be left alone to work out their differences or to decide punching each other isn't helping. What they don't need is a government agency that purports to love everyone while actually hating many, that steps in to regulate their behavior and thoughts by siding with the one belonging to their tribe.

But the overall arc is toward improvement, I think. Dr. Kendi's plan is potentially as good (or as ineffective) as any I've encountered--might be worth trying.

That improvement is ending largely because of demagogues like Kendi, although it starting to get momentum from the time it became de riguer to call any republican a racist. Ask anyone of either party or race. Race relations are worse than they've been in years.

[mahagonny]

I meant 'de rigueur.'

BTW, Dr. Kendi  was born around the same year as one of my children. I have been antiracist longer than he has been living. But in the ensuing years the definition of racism has been expanded to the point of meaninglessness. This is intentional, as the concept of racism is weaponized for political power of the far left. As inevitably became necessary to consolidate that political agenda and the myriad allegations of racism that bolster its calls to action, certain things that  literally are racism had to be deleted from the umbrella of what racism is. They now maintain there is no such thing as black-against-white racism. You can't get a more obvious refusal to tell the truth about one's world than that. Orwellian? Yes, to a T.

[jimbogumbo]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

The Indiana University Department of Journalism was established in 1911, so not exactly a recent phenomenon.

Moronicity can begin earlier. I just took their admissions advice quiz. Says I'd be good for game design. They're doing a wonderful job, as a research university.

Heh. I date moronity in US academia to 1897, when Harvard established a Department of Economics.

[marshwiggle]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

The Indiana University Department of Journalism was established in 1911, so not exactly a recent phenomenon.

Moronicity can begin earlier. I just took their admissions advice quiz. Says I'd be good for game design. They're doing a wonderful job, as a research university.

Heh. I date moronity in US academia to 1897, when Harvard established a Department of Economics.

My point above was that the main reason institutions add programs is that they think they can get enough students in them to make money. Whether the subject "belongs" at a university is less important the greater the potential financial payoff of big enrollment.

[jimbogumbo]

There are some disciplines where traditional measures of research simply do not apply, and instead one can (and should) look to measures of truly outstanding practice as real professionals in their fields. Journalism is one. Fine Arts, Music, Dance, Theater/Film, & Creative Writing are others.

Such as Hospitality Management.

Why in god'$ name are the$e $ubject$ even part of univer$itie$?

Fixed that.

The Indiana University Department of Journalism was established in 1911, so not exactly a recent phenomenon.

Moronicity can begin earlier. I just took their admissions advice quiz. Says I'd be good for game design. They're doing a wonderful job, as a research university.

Heh. I date moronity in US academia to 1897, when Harvard established a Department of Economics.

My point above was that the main reason institutions add programs is that they think they can get enough students in them to make money. Whether the subject "belongs" at a university is less important the greater the potential financial payoff of big enrollment.

Oh, I completely agree! I was just trying to make a joke at dismalist's expense.

[little bongo]

"The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with "racist ideas" and "public official" clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies to ensure they won't yield racial inequity, monitor those policies, investigate private racist policies when racial inequity surfaces, and monitor public officials for expressions of racist ideas. The DOA would be empowered with disciplinary tools to wield over and against policymakers and public officials who do not voluntarily change their racist policy and ideas."

Plenty of room there for Ogg and Krodak to settle their disputes as individuals.

I've been to protests and I've been to anti-racism workshops. Some of the woke-speak is pretty doggone silly. And yes, I turn off my camera and do an eye-roll or two when the workshop leader goes into great detail as to which indigenous tribe first occupied where we're sitting right now. And sometimes I would love to tell someone, "Hi, I'm Dr. Bongo, and do you need me to yank my pants down so you can ascertain my pronouns?" But from 2017 till early 2021, I've seen what unchecked conservative id causes to happen, and I'm not impressed. I'll stick with the wokesters and the liberal wisdom created by puny minds, thanks.

[marshwiggle]

"The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with "racist ideas" and "public official" clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies to ensure they won't yield racial inequity, monitor those policies, investigate private racist policies when racial inequity surfaces, and monitor public officials for expressions of racist ideas. The DOA would be empowered with disciplinary tools to wield over and against policymakers and public officials who do not voluntarily change their racist policy and ideas."

That is about the most Orwellian thing I've heard in ages. God help us.

[mahagonny]

"The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with "racist ideas" and "public official" clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies to ensure they won't yield racial inequity, monitor those policies, investigate private racist policies when racial inequity surfaces, and monitor public officials for expressions of racist ideas. The DOA would be empowered with disciplinary tools to wield over and against policymakers and public officials who do not voluntarily change their racist policy and ideas."

Plenty of room there for Ogg and Krodak to settle their disputes as individuals.

I've been to protests and I've been to anti-racism workshops. Some of the woke-speak is pretty doggone silly. And yes, I turn off my camera and do an eye-roll or two when the workshop leader goes into great detail as to which indigenous tribe first occupied where we're sitting right now. And sometimes I would love to tell someone, "Hi, I'm Dr. Bongo, and do you need me to yank my pants down so you can ascertain my pronouns?" But from 2017 till early 2021, I've seen what unchecked conservative id causes to happen, and I'm not impressed. I'll stick with the wokesters and the liberal wisdom created by puny minds, thanks.

I don't believe you. I find it frankly astonishing that you could be that worried about what the republicans might do, given the alternative of wokeism as federal policy.
The thing that's disappointing about Dr. Kendi is he is obviously not interested in human progress. If we were to tell him students with green skin spend, on the average, 14 hours per week high on cannabis, and spend on average three hours a day on social media, and read at a third grade level, while people with purple skin spend four hours a month high on cannabis, use social media 20 minutes per day, and read at high school senior level, and therefore, high school seniors should put down the hash pipe and cell phone and study, his only response would be you are picking on green-skinned kids. He has no interest in anything other than race as the sole arbiter. It's impossible for me to believe anyone with enough work ethic to earn a PhD, even in my field, which has a lot of fakers, does not understand he's a snake oil salesman.