Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[mahagonny]

Well, in this case, the guy was invited by a department to give a talk. There was criticism of the speaker and the department decided to rescind their invitation. You can argue about whether they should have done that, or what beliefs and ideas should be considered when deciding to invite or disinvite a speaker, but I don't really understand saying that there's something wrong because the choice was criticized and that criticism caused the department to cancel the lecture. If a department invited someone and then learned they were a holocaust denier, would you argue they shouldn't cancel the invitation?

If the department invited the person to speak about the Holocaust, they presumably would have known his views before inviting him. If he wasn't invited to speak about the Holocaust, it's totally irrelevant. I don't care if my plumber is a flat-earther or a climate-change denier; I care that s/he can fix my plumbing. Should I care about the plumber's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict? Team Edward or Team Jacob? Ginger or Mary Anne? Griffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, or Slytherin? How many dimensions of ideological purity are necessary that have nothing to do with what the person is being invited for?

Again, you are trying to insist that there are universal rules. I don't scour Facebook to see what sort of views a plumber might have before seeing if he can fix the drain. However, if I learned that the plumber I'd hired before was in a Neo nazi group, I'd hire a different plumber next time. You can have nazis in your house if you want, but I'd sooner not. There's no rule that says you can't choose to not invite people to give talks if you don't like things they have said about issues unrelated to the talk.

Nobody in the scenario is a Nazi.

[Wahoo Redux]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

[Wahoo Redux]

Boston Globe:

MIT to discuss academic freedom after canceling prestigious lecture over professor's views

[marshwiggle]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

[Sun_Worshiper]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

[mahagonny]

you don't have to cancel people that no one dares to invite in the first place. Or others who won't draw a crowd because their politics don't align with the far left diversity staff who have their fingers in all the pots, therefore won't get the promotion.
it would impossible, absolutely impossible to get a speaker like Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter anywhere near my school.

[dismalist]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

Well, not tiny or handful, but virtually all the trendies, and some non-trendies. Fortunately, there are many non-trendies. I wouldn't have wanted my kid go anywhere near a cancel culture place, and she wouldn't have wanted to go!

Let the the trendies try to survive in competition. Not all will succeed. I hope to see some of them mentioned on the Colleges in Dire Financial Straits thread in the near future. The more the better.

[Wahoo Redux]

BBC:

Kathleen Stock: University of Sussex free speech row professor quits

A professor accused of transphobia for her views on gender identity is quitting her post at the University of Sussex.

Philosophy professor Kathleen Stock, who rejects the claim, said she would be leaving after "a horrible time" and "difficult few years".

Earlier this month an anonymous group launched a campaign to get her sacked.

The university had defended Prof Stock, saying its staff have the right "to say and believe what they think".

The academic said on Twitter: "This has been an absolutely horrible time for me and my family. I'm putting it behind me now."

She also said she was glad to see the university upholding that bullying and harassment in the workplace was unacceptable.

Prof Stock, who recently published a book questioning the idea that gender identity is more "socially significant" than biological sex, rejects the claim that she or her work is transphobic.

Posters calling for her to be fired were reportedly put up near the campus, and an image emerged on social media of a campaigner holding a banner saying "Stock Out".

Higher and further education minister Michelle Donelan said: "It is absolutely appalling that the toxic environment at the University of Sussex has made it untenable for Professor Kathleen Stock to continue in her position there. No academic should ever have to fear for their personal safety.

"The sustained campaign of harassment and intimidation she has faced is deplorable and the situation should never have got this far."

[Sun_Worshiper]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

Well, not tiny or handful, but virtually all the trendies, and some non-trendies. Fortunately, there are many non-trendies. I wouldn't have wanted my kid go anywhere near a cancel culture place, and she wouldn't have wanted to go!

Let the the trendies try to survive in competition. Not all will succeed. I hope to see some of them mentioned on the Colleges in Dire Financial Straits thread in the near future. The more the better.

Feel free to show evidence that the underlined is true. Otherwise it is just a meaningless claim that will not convince anyone who isn't already wound up about this issue.

you don't have to cancel people that no one dares to invite in the first place. Or others who won't draw a crowd because their politics don't align with the far left diversity staff who have their fingers in all the pots, therefore won't get the promotion.
it would impossible, absolutely impossible to get a speaker like Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter anywhere near my school.

So conservative speakers that don't draw a crowd are being cancelled? Talk about moving the goal posts.

And the people you mention speak at universities all the time, so clearly they have not been cancelled. Maybe they don't get to visit your university, but your university seems like a weird place, where diversity staff pick the speakers and let all the adjuncts know who is not allowed to come and why. At my place (public R1) speakers are brought in by student groups, professors, centers, and deans, and we have all sorts of people who say politically incorrect things. I've never seen or heard from a diversity staff person.

But all that said, you are right that there could be a selection bias, so to speak. However, you once again need to show evidence that this is happening if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

[dismalist]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

Well, not tiny or handful, but virtually all the trendies, and some non-trendies. Fortunately, there are many non-trendies. I wouldn't have wanted my kid go anywhere near a cancel culture place, and she wouldn't have wanted to go!

Let the the trendies try to survive in competition. Not all will succeed. I hope to see some of them mentioned on the Colleges in Dire Financial Straits thread in the near future. The more the better.

Feel free to show evidence that the underlined is true. Otherwise it is just a meaningless claim that will not convince anyone who isn't already wound up about this issue.

you don't have to cancel people that no one dares to invite in the first place. Or others who won't draw a crowd because their politics don't align with the far left diversity staff who have their fingers in all the pots, therefore won't get the promotion.
it would impossible, absolutely impossible to get a speaker like Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter anywhere near my school.

So conservative speakers that don't draw a crowd are being cancelled? Talk about moving the goal posts.

And the people you mention speak at universities all the time, so clearly they have not been cancelled. Maybe they don't get to visit your university, but your university seems like a weird place, where diversity staff pick the speakers and let all the adjuncts know who is not allowed to come and why. At my place (public R1) speakers are brought in by student groups, professors, centers, and deans, and we have all sorts of people who say politically incorrect things. I've never seen or heard from a diversity staff person.

But all that said, you are right that there could be a selection bias, so to speak. However, you once again need to show evidence that this is happening if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

Look, I said I was not too worried about this stuff. A perusal of the FIRE document got me believing the trendies are up to this. A perusal. I could be wrong. I don't care. But no kid of mine would go to such a place, private or public.

I don't need to show evidence to anyone except myself. I needed to choose a specific institution for my kid, and not have anyone else choose for me.

Those I don't like may whither away, or they may not. I hope they whither.

No worries, mate. :-)

[mahagonny]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

Well, not tiny or handful, but virtually all the trendies, and some non-trendies. Fortunately, there are many non-trendies. I wouldn't have wanted my kid go anywhere near a cancel culture place, and she wouldn't have wanted to go!

Let the the trendies try to survive in competition. Not all will succeed. I hope to see some of them mentioned on the Colleges in Dire Financial Straits thread in the near future. The more the better.

Feel free to show evidence that the underlined is true. Otherwise it is just a meaningless claim that will not convince anyone who isn't already wound up about this issue.

you don't have to cancel people that no one dares to invite in the first place. Or others who won't draw a crowd because their politics don't align with the far left diversity staff who have their fingers in all the pots, therefore won't get the promotion.
it would impossible, absolutely impossible to get a speaker like Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter anywhere near my school.

So conservative speakers that don't draw a crowd are being cancelled? Talk about moving the goal posts.

And the people you mention speak at universities all the time, so clearly they have not been cancelled. Maybe they don't get to visit your university, but your university seems like a weird place, where diversity staff pick the speakers and let all the adjuncts know who is not allowed to come and why. At my place (public R1) speakers are brought in by student groups, professors, centers, and deans, and we have all sorts of people who say politically incorrect things. I've never seen or heard from a diversity staff person.

But all that said, you are right that there could be a selection bias, so to speak. However, you once again need to show evidence that this is happening if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

No shit/.

[jimbogumbo]

And on the other hand: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/579260-alabama-university-reneges-on-historians-speaking-invitation-after-anti

[Sun_Worshiper]

IHE:

Many Liberal Arts Students Need a Lesson in Free Speech

When asked about the acceptability of shouting down and protesting a speaker, three-quarters of students at liberal arts colleges (75 percent) said they believed such behavior is acceptable on certain occasions, based on my analysis. At teaching universities, that number dropped to 62 percent. Almost half (44 percent) of liberal arts students maintained that shouting down a speaker is always or sometimes acceptable, compared to about a third (32 percent) of those at large research universities.

A similar and more troubling pattern emerges on the issue of preventing one's peers from hearing a speaker's potentially controversial ideas. In the case of liberal arts colleges, over half (52 percent) of students sampled found a reason to justify blocking their peers from hearing a speaker talk, compared to roughly a third of students at large teaching (37 percent) and research (41 percent) universities.

So for the people who argue that cancel culture on campus is much less an issue than people claim, do these results confirm your position?

They don't confirm either that cancel culture is a major problem or that it is a trivial one. Among other things: (1) The phrasing of the question leaves a lot of ambiguity ("on certain occasions"), (2) beliefs don't necessarily translate into actions, (3) details on the polling methods matter and one poll can't be looked at in isolation (that's why outlets like 538 do a poll of polls).

If you want to prove this is a serious problem and not a handful of incidents that get a lot of media coverage, then tell us how how frequently people are actually cancelled (e.g. how many speakers were canceled as a share of total invitees). My guess is that it is a very tiny percentage in only a handful of universities.

Well, not tiny or handful, but virtually all the trendies, and some non-trendies. Fortunately, there are many non-trendies. I wouldn't have wanted my kid go anywhere near a cancel culture place, and she wouldn't have wanted to go!

Let the the trendies try to survive in competition. Not all will succeed. I hope to see some of them mentioned on the Colleges in Dire Financial Straits thread in the near future. The more the better.

Feel free to show evidence that the underlined is true. Otherwise it is just a meaningless claim that will not convince anyone who isn't already wound up about this issue.

you don't have to cancel people that no one dares to invite in the first place. Or others who won't draw a crowd because their politics don't align with the far left diversity staff who have their fingers in all the pots, therefore won't get the promotion.
it would impossible, absolutely impossible to get a speaker like Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter anywhere near my school.

So conservative speakers that don't draw a crowd are being cancelled? Talk about moving the goal posts.

And the people you mention speak at universities all the time, so clearly they have not been cancelled. Maybe they don't get to visit your university, but your university seems like a weird place, where diversity staff pick the speakers and let all the adjuncts know who is not allowed to come and why. At my place (public R1) speakers are brought in by student groups, professors, centers, and deans, and we have all sorts of people who say politically incorrect things. I've never seen or heard from a diversity staff person.

But all that said, you are right that there could be a selection bias, so to speak. However, you once again need to show evidence that this is happening if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

Look, I said I was not too worried about this stuff. A perusal of the FIRE document got me believing the trendies are up to this. A perusal. I could be wrong. I don't care. But no kid of mine would go to such a place, private or public.

I don't need to show evidence to anyone except myself. I needed to choose a specific institution for my kid, and not have anyone else choose for me.

Those I don't like may whither away, or they may not. I hope they whither.

No worries, mate. :-)

Cool mate, send your kid wherever you want, none of us care.

[marshwiggle]

And on the other hand: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/579260-alabama-university-reneges-on-historians-speaking-invitation-after-anti

In a fascinating irony:

Samford University, which is a Christian institution, invited Meacham to give a lecture on the current state of civility and discourse in the U.S. as part of a series of events leading up to the inauguration of the school's president Beck Taylor.

I don't care which end of the spectrum it comes from; it's equally sad.

[mahagonny]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/campus-democrats-are-less-tolerant-than-republicans