Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[Wahoo Redux]

Yeah, students are complaining and making demands, but Wax has a decades-long history of making provocative statements and the university has a history of emphasizing that she has the right to say those things.

Wax herself is asserting there should be fewer non-whites in the country and in universities. If Wax says she doesn't want Asians in the medical schools or that most of the black students at her own university shouldn't be there, are the students doing so much worse by saying they don't want Wax there?

I usually post articles to keep the discussion going and to counter the claims, variously made, that "cancel culture" is not a major agent on our college campuses, and elsewhere.

I am a bit agnostic about whether Penn should haul her ass to the back door and give her a shove or not.  That's their business.  Students will avoid her classes if they can (I certainly would), and people of color should rightly be suspicious of her. 

I would be wary of false dichotomies, however, since Wax has no way of keeping Asians from her school or country----but students can and probably will keep Wax from her school.

What worries me is when people's livelihoods are in danger when they are sanctioned, stifled, and fired for activities not associated with their jobs.  This just seems like a very dangerous precedent in culture.  I do not want to be controlled by my employer when I am not at work.  No one should.

[Wahoo Redux]

A lot of what she says does come across as more ranting than academic argument. She talks like white vs. nonwhite is exactly the same as European vs. non-European. Then she says its not about race, its about
"culture". And then there's that armchair psychologizing she does when she "speculates" as to why an Asian-American might vote Democrat...egad. And using what party someone votes for as a proxy measure of 'objective gratitude'?

Normally, over the course of my already long life I would say no, but recently, pissing all over America is de rigeur for democrats, so...sure. When the shoes fits, they are welcome to wear it. Of course, to be consistent, Dr. Wax should then be calling out her fellow Jews for the same voting preferences.

Democrats didn't attack the capitol. 

[smallcleanrat]

Wax doesn't have direct power to exclude blacks or asians, but neither do the students have direct power to remove her.

Aren't both Wax and the students trying to influence other people's decisions through words?

The dean already issued a statement on the importance of academic freedom and Wax's right to voice her views. Going back on that now may appease the students clamoring for her removal but just attract the ire of the 'cancel culture' critics, even more so than if they had fired her without first issuing that statement. It would make them hypocrites on top of everything else.

The dean did restrict her to teaching electives and not core courses back in 2017 so students could choose to avoid a situation in which Wax would have some direct authority over them. One commentator called that decision "chilling" but I find it hard to blame students who would want the option to stay clear of her courses due to concern her attitudes influence the way she treats her students.

[Wahoo Redux]

We will see if students (and non-students signing Change.org petitions) can actually get Wax removed.

It would not be unprecedented. 

[marshwiggle]

What worries me is when people's livelihoods are in danger when they are sanctioned, stifled, and fired for activities not associated with their jobs.  This just seems like a very dangerous precedent in culture.  I do not want to be controlled by my employer when I am not at work.  No one should.

Honest question; no snark intended:

Why do you think it has lately become the case that people on the left don't seem afraid of this? It seems most progressives only imagine people getting fired for "good" reasons. (The same thing goes for why they favour all kinds of censorship, such as on social media.) It wan't that long ago that people on the left worried about their views getting censored and used against them.

I'm honestly baffled as to how this seems to have changed within a decade or less. The apparent faith of progressives on big institutions (government, tech, etc.) to be on the same side with them is amazing, especially when Trump was president until just over a year ago. How do they not see that the tide can turn, and once someone is given the power to "cancel" others, they eventually start using it for their own convenience, and they rarely give it up.

Heck, even journalists sometimes talk about appointing a "truth czar" to distinguish between real news and fake news. How do they not worry that it would someday come back to bite them????

I truly don't get it.

[smallcleanrat]

We will see if students (and non-students signing Change.org petitions) can actually get Wax removed.

It would not be unprecedented.

I do get your concern that an employer might terminate someone unjustly due to pressure from protestors and such.

But I don't see that the students here are somehow the only real villains of the story because they might end up convincing someone.

No, it's not unprecedented. But neither is Wax-type rhetoric fueling and emboldening race-based hostility and discrimination. She might convince people too.

I hope the school sticks to its stated principles and doesn't cave in, but I don't really see why the students are so much more in the wrong here, as if only their speech is capable of threatening someone's livelihood.

It's not that I think the students demands should be catered to, I just don't think its true that Wax's statements are bigoted yet not truly harmful because she can't personally kick specific ethnicities out of the country or the universities. It would still be less direct I guess than if she were targeting specific individuals as the petitioners are here. But...

I don't know how clear I'm being. I'm not disagreeing with you about the reasons to be concerned by the petitioner's demands. I just think its important not to let that completely eclipse the potential impact of the type of scapegoating Wax is trying to promote.

[dismalist]

People tend to forget that free speech is a right that only the government can't abridge. Private institutions can do so with reckless abandon.

Let universities do what they will. Students can select whether they want to be exposed to ... whatever. Faculty would choose, too.

We could have free speech universities, controlled speech universities, and ... whatever.

May the best universities win!

[Wahoo Redux]

Why do you think it has lately become the case that people on the left don't seem afraid of this? It seems most progressives only imagine people getting fired for "good" reasons.

How do they not see that the tide can turn, and once someone is given the power to "cancel" others, they eventually start using it for their own convenience, and they rarely give it up.

I think it is a good question, and I am not smart enough or knowledgeable to say for sure.

I have always said that once we start policing people's thoughts other people are going to start policing ours.

But I suspect these scenarios are extreme reactions to extreme rhetoric.   The right has become a Trumpish bastion of all sorts of lies and misinformation.  And I think the Right is getting an extreme reaction in return. 

I also suspect that students and faculty cannot police the rabid race-baiting Trumpers et al. and so they police what they can, which again generates extreme reactions.  Hannity and Carlson simply lie on FOX news and there is very little any of us can do about that.  Hannity and Carlson lie and a certain percentage of the population is very receptive to their misinformation and are closed off to any other dialogue----and there is very little we can do about that.  So we police each other with extreme reactions.  The Right spews hate and gets hate in return...and this flashes back onto our campuses.  It is not so different from the rhetoric on the Left in the '70s and '80s, mind you, but the polarities have switched.

And I suspect that there is some justice in calling for a racist law professor to be removed.  Wax is very well credentialed (if you look at her CV she must be one of the best educated people in the world with a mountain of scholarship) but she does not serve her uni or her students because of (what appear to be) severe psychological problems.

Which is why I did NOT say that...

But I don't see that the students here are somehow the only real villains of the story because they might end up convincing someone.

Wax has now diminished her role as an educator and scholar.  This is something Penn should be worried about.

There should be genuine concern about Wax's evaluation of Asian and African-American students.  Penn should take note of this.

One of my colleagues is a pacifist outspoken peacenik.  Should veterans (which we have a number) be concerned?

No, it's not unprecedented. But neither is Wax-type rhetoric fueling and emboldening race-based hostility and discrimination. She might convince people too.

******

It's not that I think the students demands should be catered to, I just don't think its true that Wax's statements are bigoted yet not truly harmful because she can't personally kick specific ethnicities out of the country or the universities. It would still be less direct I guess than if she were targeting specific individuals as the petitioners are here. But...

I just think its important not to let that completely eclipse the potential impact of the type of scapegoating Wax is trying to promote.

Quite true.  But as Marshy points out, we are opening the can that might close us off.  There are many principles at work here.

We have a true conundrum in these scenaros.

People tend to forget that free speech is a right that only the government can't abridge. Private institutions can do so with reckless abandon.

Golly!  I never heard that one before.

Is smoking healthy?

[marshwiggle]

Why do you think it has lately become the case that people on the left don't seem afraid of this? It seems most progressives only imagine people getting fired for "good" reasons.

How do they not see that the tide can turn, and once someone is given the power to "cancel" others, they eventually start using it for their own convenience, and they rarely give it up.

I think it is a good question, and I am not smart enough or knowledgeable to say for sure.

One idea occurred to me. Is it possible that the "participation trophy" generation grew up so shielded from criticism that they really can't imagine themselves having the ideas someone else finds offensive? Has the effect of people having "curated" lives on social media so permeated a generation that they can't conceive ( and would be appalled at the idea) of being outside the mainstream?

[jimbogumbo]

Apologies if there was a thread on this already. She says she was cancelled, and defamed as well. Others say she committed an egregious act for a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/08/freelance-writer-ruth-shalit-barrett-sues-the-atlantic-magazine-for-1-million-526793

[Wahoo Redux]

Why do you think it has lately become the case that people on the left don't seem afraid of this? It seems most progressives only imagine people getting fired for "good" reasons.

How do they not see that the tide can turn, and once someone is given the power to "cancel" others, they eventually start using it for their own convenience, and they rarely give it up.

I think it is a good question, and I am not smart enough or knowledgeable to say for sure.

One idea occurred to me. Is it possible that the "participation trophy" generation grew up so shielded from criticism that they really can't imagine themselves having the ideas someone else finds offensive? Has the effect of people having "curated" lives on social media so permeated a generation that they can't conceive ( and would be appalled at the idea) of being outside the mainstream?

No.  That's the old curmudgeon reaction, Marshy.  We ALWAYS think the kids are "pampered" or "shielded" or "entitled" or "[whatever]"-----it's just the way humans think.  Every generation says this kind of crapoloa about the younger generations.

Kids these days are post-AIDS, post-9/11, post-middle eastern wars, post-recession, post-rise of hate crimes and extremism, and in the midst of COVID and the culture wars.  They pay exorbitant amounts of tuition and have no guarantee of a social safety net.  Almost all students work and go to school at the same time these days.  We live in the midst of the Age of Information, so the kids are emphatically NOT shielded from anything.

What I read somewhere (but I can't remember) is that a great many people of color have seen images of police kneeling on a handcuffed man until he suffocated to death----and they are afraid.

[marshwiggle]

What I read somewhere (but I can't remember) is that a great many people of color have seen images of police kneeling on a handcuffed man until he suffocated to death----and they are afraid.

But shouldn't that make them MORE afraid of government (or institutional) oversight???

If police are agents of the state, then giving the state more freedom to suppress speech is similar to giving police more powers. Again, the optimism about institutional power doesn't make sense.

[Wahoo Redux]

What I read somewhere (but I can't remember) is that a great many people of color have seen images of police kneeling on a handcuffed man until he suffocated to death----and they are afraid.

But shouldn't that make them MORE afraid of government (or institutional) oversight???

If police are agents of the state, then giving the state more freedom to suppress speech is similar to giving police more powers. Again, the optimism about institutional power doesn't make sense.

I think they are afraid of institutional racism and racists in positions of authority.

But I cannot speak for the minority experience, so I should not say more really.

[larryc]

I am going to start a rumor that Antifa is trying to cancel Sesame Street. That should get Republicans to support more funding for PBS.

[Wahoo Redux]

The right way to shut down bigots:

Student raises over $70K for scholarship for women after professor's viral comments

The typical way we try to shut down bigots:

https://www.change.org/p/students-get-bsu-to-let-go-of-scott-yenor