Cancelling Dr. Seuss

[marshwiggle]

Goldberg says something along the lines of 'well, since the difference between a white Jew and a white non-Jew can't be seen, the Nazis really had to work to identify them by digging into records and such'.  Again, I don't see why she thinks this is such an important distinction.

I would imagine part of it goes to ideas like "black people can't be racist". For her, racism is a one-way street, and clearly defined. It's literally black and white.

[dismalist]

Goldberg says something along the lines of 'well, since the difference between a white Jew and a white non-Jew can't be seen, the Nazis really had to work to identify them by digging into records and such'.  Again, I don't see why she thinks this is such an important distinction.

I don't give a flying fxxk what Goldberg thinks or says. However, there is a kernel of something contemporary in her ahistorical and uninformed statements. Nazi ideology was that "all of history is a struggle between races." The Nazis had trouble identifying German Jews on average, because Jews were highly assimilated, a cultural exchange that was a two way street, by the way. [Once the Nazis moved east, this situation no longer existed.]

Blacks in the US at the moment on average are highly culturally assimilated, and that cultural exchange is a two way street, too. Thus, anyone wishing to pursue identity politics in the US has a problem -- there is insufficient difference! Differences must be manufactured. And what's left is color of skin. Goldberg is a mirror of her milieu.

I don't care if people are green.

[marshwiggle]

Goldberg says something along the lines of 'well, since the difference between a white Jew and a white non-Jew can't be seen, the Nazis really had to work to identify them by digging into records and such'.  Again, I don't see why she thinks this is such an important distinction.

I don't give a flying fxxk what Goldberg thinks or says. However, there is a kernel of something contemporary in her ahistorical and uninformed statements. Nazi ideology was that "all of history is a struggle between races." The Nazis had trouble identifying German Jews on average, because Jews were highly assimilated, a cultural exchange that was a two way street, by the way. [Once the Nazis moved east, this situation no longer existed.]

Blacks in the US at the moment on average are highly culturally assimilated, and that cultural exchange is a two way street, too. Thus, anyone wishing to pursue identity politics in the US has a problem -- there is insufficient difference! Differences must be manufactured. And what's left is color of skin. Goldberg is a mirror of her milieu.

As Thomas Sowell points out, throughout history all over the world, slavery usually involved slaves and owners of the same or similar ethnicity. The trans-atlantic slave trade (which exploited the slave trade within Africa) was more the exception than the rule.

[smallcleanrat]

Goldberg says something along the lines of 'well, since the difference between a white Jew and a white non-Jew can't be seen, the Nazis really had to work to identify them by digging into records and such'.  Again, I don't see why she thinks this is such an important distinction.

I don't give a flying fxxk what Goldberg thinks or says. However, there is a kernel of something contemporary in her ahistorical and uninformed statements. Nazi ideology was that "all of history is a struggle between races." The Nazis had trouble identifying German Jews on average, because Jews were highly assimilated, a cultural exchange that was a two way street, by the way. [Once the Nazis moved east, this situation no longer existed.]

Blacks in the US at the moment on average are highly culturally assimilated, and that cultural exchange is a two way street, too. Thus, anyone wishing to pursue identity politics in the US has a problem -- there is insufficient difference! Differences must be manufactured. And what's left is color of skin. Goldberg is a mirror of her milieu.

I don't care if people are green.

Well, that's nice.

Unfortunately, some people, who are not you, do care a great deal.

I'm not saying proponents of identity politics don't ever manufacture outrage or use divisive rhetoric, but it seems disingenuous to imply that being 'culturally assimilated' means you won't be treated poorly due to your (perceived) race.



A common narrative among minorities in America relates to the frustration of being just as American as anyone else (culturally speaking) yet still treated as an other. People speak of desperately trying to fit in, but constantly being reminded of their differences by people who see their physical characteristics (and implied racial category) above all else.

In my high school class on American government, a few of the kids refused to work on a group project with me saying, "You're a Chink, so you're probably a Commie too. What would you know about democracy?"

I was never some SJW woke-scold or anti-capitalist activist. I was shy, quiet, and mostly just kept my head down. No action on my part prompted them to say that; my face did.

This was in the 21st century (and not at all the worst example). Things were worse in my dad's generation and worse still in my granddad's.

My dad was in the Boy Scouts, is a Christian, and votes Republican. My great uncles fought for America in WWII (even after being made homeless after their father lost his job due to rising animosity towards Japanese-Americans). You think that meant they were immune to racism? Perhaps they weren't subject to as much prejudice as they would have if they hadn't been so Americanized, but it was still a recurring part of their lives.



To some extent, I sympathize when people exasperatedly say, "Why do they have to make everything about race?" There are a lot of overblown claims, hyperbolic statements, and questionable policy proposals.

But I resent the implication that racism (or sexism or hostility towards LGBTQ people) is only an issue because people talk about it. As if everything would be just hunky-dory if people would just stop complaining, because "nobody cares" about your race or sexuality or what-have-you.

It's just not true.

[dismalist]

Goldberg says something along the lines of 'well, since the difference between a white Jew and a white non-Jew can't be seen, the Nazis really had to work to identify them by digging into records and such'.  Again, I don't see why she thinks this is such an important distinction.

I don't give a flying fxxk what Goldberg thinks or says. However, there is a kernel of something contemporary in her ahistorical and uninformed statements. Nazi ideology was that "all of history is a struggle between races." The Nazis had trouble identifying German Jews on average, because Jews were highly assimilated, a cultural exchange that was a two way street, by the way. [Once the Nazis moved east, this situation no longer existed.]

Blacks in the US at the moment on average are highly culturally assimilated, and that cultural exchange is a two way street, too. Thus, anyone wishing to pursue identity politics in the US has a problem -- there is insufficient difference! Differences must be manufactured. And what's left is color of skin. Goldberg is a mirror of her milieu.

I don't care if people are green.

Well, that's nice.

Unfortunately, some people, who are not you, do care a great deal.

I'm not saying proponents of identity politics don't ever manufacture outrage or use divisive rhetoric, but it seems disingenuous to imply that being 'culturally assimilated' means you won't be treated poorly due to your (perceived) race.



A common narrative among minorities in America relates to the frustration of being just as American as anyone else (culturally speaking) yet still treated as an other. People speak of desperately trying to fit in, but constantly being reminded of their differences by people who see their physical characteristics (and implied racial category) above all else.

In my high school class on American government, a few of the kids refused to work on a group project with me saying, "You're a Chink, so you're probably a Commie too. What would you know about democracy?"

I was never some SJW woke-scold or anti-capitalist activist. I was shy, quiet, and mostly just kept my head down. No action on my part prompted them to say that; my face did.

This was in the 21st century (and not at all the worst example). Things were worse in my dad's generation and worse still in my granddad's.

My dad was in the Boy Scouts, is a Christian, and votes Republican. My great uncles fought for America in WWII (even after being made homeless after their father lost his job due to rising animosity towards Japanese-Americans). You think that meant they were immune to racism? Perhaps they weren't subject to as much prejudice as they would have if they hadn't been so Americanized, but it was still a recurring part of their lives.



To some extent, I sympathize when people exasperatedly say, "Why do they have to make everything about race?" There are a lot of overblown claims, hyperbolic statements, and questionable policy proposals.

But I resent the implication that racism (or sexism or hostility towards LGBTQ people) is only an issue because people talk about it. As if everything would be just hunky-dory if people would just stop complaining, because "nobody cares" about your race or sexuality or what-have-you.

It's just not true.

Yo! Ask the Irish, spreaders of disease in the 18th century. [Irishmen and dogs need not apply (for jobs).] Controllers of the politics of cities in the 19th. Chicago: Vote early and vote often.

When I first saw "Kiss Me, I'm Irish Buttons" on people ages ago, I knew the problem, if any, had ceased to exist.

Next we'll see "Kiss Me, I'm Black [or hadn't you noticed]".

I really don't care if you're green. Take it or leave it. 

[mahagonny]

I'm not saying proponents of identity politics don't ever manufacture outrage or use divisive rhetoric, but it seems disingenuous to imply that being 'culturally assimilated' means you won't be treated poorly due to your (perceived) race.

My first experience being treated differently (and with clear contempt) due to my perceived race happened at about age 11. I never forgot it. I don't dwell on it though.

[ciao_yall]

Another news item on our topic: https://abcnews.go.com/US/whoopi-goldberg-suspended-view-weeks-holocaust-comments/story?id=82613265

If I understand correctly the issue is Goldberg saw European Jews as belonging to the same race as the German non-Jews.

Even hearing her trying to explain herself is ridiculous. "THEY'RE ALL WHITE PEOPLE!!!"

"racism" = "white people good, black people bad" according to Whoopi.

To someone with only a hammer, every problem is a nail.

To White Supremacists, Jewsish people are not White. They are Semitic/Eastern European. Just look for images and tell me they aren't seeing different physical/racial characteristics, from a "swarthy" skin color to thick curly hair and a large nose.

[jimbogumbo]

If you claim to have not heard anyone espouse that non-whites are inferior you clearly are trying not to hear it, or live in an incredibly liberal/progressive place. I had friends call Arabs sand n******s, and Jews are not referred to as "mud people" by US(!!) neo-Nazis because they are perceived to be white.

And, in the Midwest every US citizen of Asian heritage is Chinese, unless you are of WWII age and they are Japanese.

Jesus wept.

[mahagonny]

People of WWII age are mostly dead. They are not people one runs into without frequenting nursing homes where there isn't even a lot of talking. Bill Maher thinks you have 'progressophobia.'
You've never lived through an experience even remotely like the threat of the second world war, so your scrutiny of those who did is...well, comes off a bit pompous. Some got over their distrust of the Japanese and some didn't. Younger Americans today think they would have been among the most forget-and-forgiving. But it's a guess.
Mistaking a person of Korean descent for a person of Chinese descent or a Japanese American for a Japanese tourist is something that makes you look provincial, unworldly, ignorant but it doesn't necessarily signify hate. Not at all.
Sure there are some racist whites, but it's a small minority of whites, yet there's a lot of rage against white people. I feel sorry for people who delve into that rage, as do a growing number of Black Americans.

[marshwiggle]

If you claim to have not heard anyone espouse that non-whites are inferior you clearly are trying not to hear it, or live in an incredibly liberal/progressive place.

From Darrell Brooks, the criminal who ran down several people including children and elderly ladies,

"So when we start bakk knokkin white people TF out ion wanna hear it...the old white ppl 2, KNOKK DEM TF OUT!! PERIOD," he wrote under his rap name, MathBoi Fly, along with a middle-finger emoji.

Sadly, no ethnic group has a monopoly on members saying (and doing) hateful things, and no group is immune to being on the receiving end.

[jimbogumbo]

People of WWII age are mostly dead. They are not people one runs into without frequenting nursing homes where there isn't even a lot of talking. Bill Maher thinks you have 'progressophobia.'
You've never lived through an experience even remotely like the threat of the second world war, so your scrutiny of those who did is...well, comes off a bit pompous. Some got over their distrust of the Japanese and some didn't. Younger Americans today think they would have been among the most forget-and-forgiving. But it's a guess.
Mistaking a person of Korean descent for a person of Chinese descent or a Japanese American for a Japanese tourist is something that makes you look provincial, unworldly, ignorant but it doesn't necessarily signify hate. Not at all.
Sure there are some racist whites, but it's a small minority of whites, yet there's a lot of rage against white people. I feel sorry for people who delve into that rage, as do a growing number of Black Americans.

I had seven uncles and a grandfather who faught in WWII and Korea. My father and and father in law loudly reminisced about the "gooks" in Korea in the waiting room during my son's surgery until I said one of those "gooks" might be operating on their grandson. I worked at factories in the Midwest, a highway crew, and just told you what my FRIENDS referred to Iraqis as. The language I describe is common now in Midwestern small towns.

Frankly, you don't know crap about this, but keep on with your delusions.

[apl68]

People of WWII age are mostly dead. They are not people one runs into without frequenting nursing homes where there isn't even a lot of talking. Bill Maher thinks you have 'progressophobia.'
You've never lived through an experience even remotely like the threat of the second world war, so your scrutiny of those who did is...well, comes off a bit pompous. Some got over their distrust of the Japanese and some didn't. Younger Americans today think they would have been among the most forget-and-forgiving. But it's a guess.
Mistaking a person of Korean descent for a person of Chinese descent or a Japanese American for a Japanese tourist is something that makes you look provincial, unworldly, ignorant but it doesn't necessarily signify hate. Not at all.
Sure there are some racist whites, but it's a small minority of whites, yet there's a lot of rage against white people. I feel sorry for people who delve into that rage, as do a growing number of Black Americans.

I had seven uncles and a grandfather who faught in WWII and Korea. My father and and father in law loudly reminisced about the "gooks" in Korea in the waiting room during my son's surgery until I said one of those "gooks" might be operating on their grandson. I worked at factories in the Midwest, a highway crew, and just told you what my FRIENDS referred to Iraqis as. The language I describe is common now in Midwestern small towns.

Frankly, you don't know crap about this, but keep on with your delusions.

Didn't know there was so much of that in the Midwest.  Here in the south I've very seldom heard racial slurs against people of Asian and Middle Eastern origin.  I heard quite a few racial slurs against black people growing up, but mostly from schoolboys who used racial slurs as part of a broader adolescent tendency to use language they knew wasn't supposed to be used in polite society.  Racial slurs were no longer respectable by the 1970s.  That's not to say that expressions of disparaging attitudes didn't, and don't, remain.

[smallcleanrat]

If you claim to have not heard anyone espouse that non-whites are inferior you clearly are trying not to hear it, or live in an incredibly liberal/progressive place.

From Darrell Brooks, the criminal who ran down several people including children and elderly ladies,

"So when we start bakk knokkin white people TF out ion wanna hear it...the old white ppl 2, KNOKK DEM TF OUT!! PERIOD," he wrote under his rap name, MathBoi Fly, along with a middle-finger emoji.

Sadly, no ethnic group has a monopoly on members saying (and doing) hateful things, and no group is immune to being on the receiving end.

jimbogumbo's post didn't make the claim that only white people can be racist.

[marshwiggle]

If you claim to have not heard anyone espouse that non-whites are inferior you clearly are trying not to hear it, or live in an incredibly liberal/progressive place.

From Darrell Brooks, the criminal who ran down several people including children and elderly ladies,

"So when we start bakk knokkin white people TF out ion wanna hear it...the old white ppl 2, KNOKK DEM TF OUT!! PERIOD," he wrote under his rap name, MathBoi Fly, along with a middle-finger emoji.

Sadly, no ethnic group has a monopoly on members saying (and doing) hateful things, and no group is immune to being on the receiving end.

jimbogumbo's post didn't make the claim that only white people can be racist.

No, but the implication is common. Has any mainstream media outlet or government official even suggested that Darrell Brooks' attack was a racist action? If a white criminal had driven into a crowd of black people, would any mainstream media outlet or government official suggested it wasn't a racist action?

Calling racism has an incredible double standard.

[jimbogumbo]

If you claim to have not heard anyone espouse that non-whites are inferior you clearly are trying not to hear it, or live in an incredibly liberal/progressive place.

From Darrell Brooks, the criminal who ran down several people including children and elderly ladies,

"So when we start bakk knokkin white people TF out ion wanna hear it...the old white ppl 2, KNOKK DEM TF OUT!! PERIOD," he wrote under his rap name, MathBoi Fly, along with a middle-finger emoji.

Sadly, no ethnic group has a monopoly on members saying (and doing) hateful things, and no group is immune to being on the receiving end.

jimbogumbo's post didn't make the claim that only white people can be racist.

No, but the implication is common. Has any mainstream media outlet or government official even suggested that Darrell Brooks' attack was a racist action? If a white criminal had driven into a crowd of black people, would any mainstream media outlet or government official suggested it wasn't a racist action?

Calling racism has an incredible double standard.

jimbogumbo did not make the claim, and would not. jimbogumbo has been trying politely (until a recent post) to push bacon the racism is no longer claims of some.

To apl68's post (always thoughtful and kind), no it is not polite nor common to hear racial pejoratives on the street in the Midwest. I am not claiming that, only that what small cleanrat experienced is common for citizens of Asian heritage. My state is referred to as "Southern" both in who lives here and attitude. It was largely a factory state, with workers from TN and KY who relocated here.

as to the claim there are no white supemacists, made by at least two posters, we have a KKK group 15 miles from where I've lived the past 40 years. And, in recent news from FL:

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2022/01/31/rabbi-discusses-safety-in-light-of-nazi-group-demonstrations/