The Fat People Thread

[Vkw10]

As spork mentioned, managing blood sugar levels is important. Eating whole foods helps with fiber and nutrients. On a concentrated thought day, I might add both sliced avocado and chopped nuts to my salad to boost energy to brain. On a meeting heavy day, the salad gets either avocado or nuts, not both, but I'll add extra radishes and cucumbers. I don't cut calories to the point that I'm hungry all day, since that tends to lead to drive throughs, fries, and shakes.

[Faith786]

I've encountered that assertion in many places.  That doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as having sufficient food that I can think.

I definitely notice being hungrier when I have been doing a lot of thinking and then come up for air than when I have a lower cognitive load.

I do get brain fog if I'm not eating enough.  I don't keep track of calories, but it's noticeable to me when I'm low on fuel.  I can't live on junk food, but I don't experience a crash by having some quick sugar to stave off the 1500 slow time when thinking is hard.

Same...I need to eat enough, which is just as important as getting enough sleep to avoid brain fog.

[smallcleanrat]

I think I'm looking for perspective/opinions about this more than anything (how-to-look-at-it more than what-to-do-about-it).

My SO was overweight when we met; over the years his weight has crept up to the point where he is classified as obese. I've become increasingly concerned for his health. This is not a mere concern about appearance or fixation about numbers on a scale. He gets sweaty and short of breath very easily, has frequent back and leg pains, and is starting to have a bit of difficulty getting up from a sitting position. I know BMI is not a perfect indicator of health, but aside from that, other measures like waist circumference/amount of abdominal fat are used as predictors of increased weight-related health risks. His belly has started hanging over his belt and his walk is sometimes reminiscent of a pregnant woman's waddle.

Even separate from the weight issue, his diet is very unhealthy (mostly fast food/restaurant food, processed snacks, frozen dinners, etc...). He has an underlying health condition that makes it all the more important to limit things like sugar, which can contribute to inflammatory responses.

I'm not aiming to try to "make" him change his habits because (1) if he's only doing it for me with no intrinsic motivation, it won't do much good and (2) it'll just be more stress for both of us if I'm monitoring and nagging him all the time. I *do* sincerely wish adopting a healthier diet was a priority for him, because he is very methodical and dedicated once he sets his mind to do something. I know he could succeed if he committed to making a change.

I've had to watch several family members battle severe health issues exacerbated by poor diet and it scares me that he might have to go through similarly painful and debilitating illnesses at a relatively young age. I don't want to see him get sick and I don't want to see him die young.

I've known a few people who have had similar concerns about loved ones. One tried to be an influence/role model by adopting healthier habits themselves, and that did seem to help inspire the loved one to give it a try as well. Another took charge of all the groceries and cooking, making sure their home was always stocked with healthy eating options. This led to a ton of stress for them, because the loved one would eat the healthy meals, but if my friend was too tired to cook then it was back to fast food. There was no real sense of agency or responsibility on the part of the loved one to make healthy decisions for themselves.

I'm not really dwelling over how to change his behavior. I'm pondering more over how this relates to boundaries in a relationship and whether certain of my worries are reasonable or overly emotion-based.

1) I'd like to be in the know with regards to SO's health. He *has* said if a doctor ever gives him the "either lose weight or you won't last five years" type of speech, he would focus more on eating healthy. A few times after he's gotten physicals I've asked him about what the doctor said. He always says, "Everything's fine." If I ask for specifics (like "so BP and cholesterol were normal?") he says it's not my business. He's also said weight "shouldn't matter if you love someone." But it's precisely *because* I care that it matters to me.

2) SO wants kids and I don't feel at all confident planning for that when I don't think he's taking particularly good care of himself. I'm too worried he might die or become disabled by illness when the kids are still young, and that kids would also pick up unhealthy eating habits and suffer as a consequence.

SO's countered by saying he could be the fittest man on earth and get hit by a bus. So the impossibility of guaranteeing he will be alive and in good health for decades to come makes the concern about him dying young pointless (one of those "accept the things you cannot change" type mindsets). My thought is that the impossibility of a guarantee doesn't mean risk mitigation is pointless. I mean, the other half of that mantra is "change the things I can," right?

[AJ_Katz]

@smallcleanrat – Have you seen the movie Eating You Alive?  It could be a good conversation starter for you both. While you can certainly attempt to maintain your own health while your partner is increasingly unhealthy, it would be better if you shared some of your health goals so that you can support each other on your health journey.  Alternatively, you could undergo a radical diet change to be healthier, with the hope that your partner will see your success with healthy eating and join in (are you cooking dinners at home?  that's a great place to start).  Perhaps your partner has put up a wall because he feels helpless in the weight battle.... but if given the right tools and with the right support, perhaps he would be able to see a new path forward.  Sometimes these things take time and are a process. 

Also, I see the same physician as my partner.  We both scheduled our physical on the same day last year and the doctor, while in my room asked "So, is there anything I should know about your partner?" and I told him what my partner was hoping to get out of his experience at the doctor that day.  I'm also assuming that my partner was asked the same question about me.  You might consider changing your primary care physician to the same person and talking with them about your concerns. But that's kind of a shot in the dark.  It seems the most direct option would be to talk with your partner about each of your long-term goals for health...  like, what do you want to do in retirement?  Will you need your physical abilities later in life?  What about expenses?  Health care costs are expensive and achieving good health is a great way to save money.

Hopefully others will have more to suggest in your case. 

[spork]

[. . . ]

SO's countered by saying he could be the fittest man on earth and get hit by a bus.

[. . .]

Chance of getting hit by a bus is close to zero. His current chance of debilitating heart disease, diabetes, etc. is far higher.

SO is committing slow suicide.

[Morden]

Hi SCR,

I'm not really dwelling over how to change his behavior. I'm pondering more over how this relates to boundaries in a relationship and whether certain of my worries are reasonable or overly emotion-based.

I think your worries can be both reasonable and emotion-based. It is reasonable to worry about your SO's health. But it is unlikely that you will be able to change his behavior. He has to want to eat healthier, etc. It's important that you continue taking care of yourself, and that includes eating well and exercising. Hopefully, he will want to join you eating delicious and healthy food (perhaps more likely if you do the shopping and don't have much junk around) but you can't make him.

[smallcleanrat]

@smallcleanrat – Have you seen the movie Eating You Alive?  It could be a good conversation starter for you both. While you can certainly attempt to maintain your own health while your partner is increasingly unhealthy, it would be better if you shared some of your health goals so that you can support each other on your health journey.  Alternatively, you could undergo a radical diet change to be healthier, with the hope that your partner will see your success with healthy eating and join in (are you cooking dinners at home?  that's a great place to start).  Perhaps your partner has put up a wall because he feels helpless in the weight battle.... but if given the right tools and with the right support, perhaps he would be able to see a new path forward.  Sometimes these things take time and are a process. 

Also, I see the same physician as my partner.  We both scheduled our physical on the same day last year and the doctor, while in my room asked "So, is there anything I should know about your partner?" and I told him what my partner was hoping to get out of his experience at the doctor that day.  I'm also assuming that my partner was asked the same question about me.  You might consider changing your primary care physician to the same person and talking with them about your concerns. But that's kind of a shot in the dark.  It seems the most direct option would be to talk with your partner about each of your long-term goals for health...  like, what do you want to do in retirement?  Will you need your physical abilities later in life?  What about expenses?  Health care costs are expensive and achieving good health is a great way to save money.

Hopefully others will have more to suggest in your case.

Thanks for the movie recommendation; I'll check it out. I could definitely stand to eat healthier myself, maybe try to learn a few healthy recipes we both enjoy. He grew up on heavily processed foods though, so fresh foods often don't "taste right" to him. (e.g. he prefers canned fruit in syrup to fresh fruit)

My mom went on a major health food kick when I was in middle school and (as she was the one who did the shopping and cooking for the family) that meant my dad and I were along for the ride. So I do remember how it feels to give up old favorite foods and adopt new ones. It does take some time to get used to a different diet. But eventually, things I used to eat and enjoy starting tasting way too sweet or too greasy, and things like water (which at first seemed very bland) became very refreshing. Unfortunately, at moment, SO is only willing to accept a food swap (e.g. fresh fruit instead of canned) if he enjoys the new item just as much as the old. Food is a major source of comfort for him when stressed, so he's highly reluctant to go without the pleasure of eating the foods he currently loves long enough for his tastes to adapt.

I didn't realize there were physicians who ask for input from their patients' spouses; I'm guessing the info still goes one way, though? i.e. doc asks you for input about spouse but doesn't share info about spouse with you unless spouse gives permission?

SO did let me look at the results of his last blood test, which showed above-average-range LDL and cholesterol levels. I asked if the doctor had commented on that; when SO said the doc hadn't, I asked SO to inquire next time he saw the doc whether this was something to be concerned about. SO did not want to do this. I don't know if that's because he thinks I'm worrying over nothing, or he doesn't want to hear any bad news or recommendations to change his diet.

The times I'm most at a loss as to what to say are when he mentions he's made a change or is thinking about making a change as a step towards eating healthier. Like the time he started replacing soda with juice, saying "It's made from fruit, so it's healthier." When I pointed out that fruit juice often has just as much sugar as soda he was annoyed saying "how was I supposed to know?" Well...the nutrition label...

The fact that he's not reading nutrition labels indicates to me that he's not really invested in making better decisions. His normal MO once he sets a goal is to do a ton of research so he can make informed decisions and a plan of action. I've always been impressed by his diligence in this. If he's not doing something as basic as checking labels, that tells me he didn't do his homework, which probably means this is not a serious goal for him.

One bit of advice he's been enthusiastic about is to make gradual rather than drastic changes, as drastic changes are far more difficult to maintain long-term. There's a lot of merit to this approach, but if change is so "gradual" it is drawn out indefinitely then it's not effective. He told me he thought a good "gradual" plan would be to lose about one pound per year. Given weight can fluctuate +/- 2 pounds in a single day, this is not at all a meaningful rate of change. And even if it were, if he's obese now, in ten years at ten pounds lighter, he will still be obese. Not to mention, as he ages his metabolism will slow and muscle mass will decrease which makes maintaining or losing weight more difficult. Add to that potential injuries to his joints due to carrying the excess weight which may hinder his mobility, and weight loss becomes harder still. I worry the longer he waits to make a serious effort, the less likely it will be that those efforts will be successful.

But me poking holes in his plans probably just makes him more reluctant to talk or think about the matter. So I'm not sure how to respond when he tells me these things.

[clean]

He told me he thought a good "gradual" plan would be to lose about one pound per year.

Dale Carnegie said, "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Remember, you can lead a horse to water...

As for gradual changes versus dramatic changes? It sounds like the way your mother did it may be the solution.  Take his (poor) choices away.  Stock the house with veggies, but make them just as fast.  IF he wants a snack, let him have his choice between carrots and celery or broccoli and cauliflower.  But cut them up so that they are ready to eat!

You may have to take his credit card away, though, or he will simply eat away from home. 


For gradual changes, offer tea. Start with sweet tea and slowly cut the sugar back over several weeks. 

Anyway, You have to decide how much pain and agony (bitching and whining) you are willing to tolerate.  In other threads you have indicated, (to be blunt) that this relationship may not be in your best interests.  While you are dependent on him, one approach is to keep him 'fat and happy'.  Once you are better yourself, and less dependent on him for YOUR care, then you will have more power to make the changes/ultimatums that will be necessary to encourage changes.  You can not convince him to the 'shape up or ship out' when you can not take care of yourself in the 'ship out' case.


Good luck.  But remember what Dale Carnegie said. 

Also, there is a difference between support and nagging, but the one on the receiving end may not be able to see the difference and all support becomes nagging.

sorry for the disjointed message.  I have similar issues, and I dont feel that my spouse is exactly supportive (as there is always an excuse to have a treat and start 'for real, NEXT week'.  (Mac and Cheese IS a vegetable!)  Anyway, I feel your struggles, and I am also on the scale bouncing around not just Obese, but Morbidly Obese. 

But One pound a year?  That is signal that he is not at all interested, and does not WANT 'help'.  He wants to be left to his own, so you are in for an uphill fight. 

[smallcleanrat]

He told me he thought a good "gradual" plan would be to lose about one pound per year.

Dale Carnegie said, "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Remember, you can lead a horse to water...

As for gradual changes versus dramatic changes? It sounds like the way your mother did it may be the solution.  Take his (poor) choices away.  Stock the house with veggies, but make them just as fast.  IF he wants a snack, let him have his choice between carrots and celery or broccoli and cauliflower.  But cut them up so that they are ready to eat!

You may have to take his credit card away, though, or he will simply eat away from home. 


For gradual changes, offer tea. Start with sweet tea and slowly cut the sugar back over several weeks. 

Anyway, You have to decide how much pain and agony (bitching and whining) you are willing to tolerate.  In other threads you have indicated, (to be blunt) that this relationship may not be in your best interests.  While you are dependent on him, one approach is to keep him 'fat and happy'.  Once you are better yourself, and less dependent on him for YOUR care, then you will have more power to make the changes/ultimatums that will be necessary to encourage changes.  You can not convince him to the 'shape up or ship out' when you can not take care of yourself in the 'ship out' case.


Good luck.  But remember what Dale Carnegie said. 

Also, there is a difference between support and nagging, but the one on the receiving end may not be able to see the difference and all support becomes nagging.

sorry for the disjointed message.  I have similar issues, and I dont feel that my spouse is exactly supportive (as there is always an excuse to have a treat and start 'for real, NEXT week'.  (Mac and Cheese IS a vegetable!)  Anyway, I feel your struggles, and I am also on the scale bouncing around not just Obese, but Morbidly Obese. 

But One pound a year?  That is signal that he is not at all interested, and does not WANT 'help'.  He wants to be left to his own, so you are in for an uphill fight.

One extra complication is he has a legitimate medical reason to avoid certain types of food often recommended for 'healthier' eating. He can't have high-fiber foods, so a lot of whole grains and certain fruits and veggies are out. It makes me nervous about making his dietary decisions for him. I've begged him to speak with his GI or a nutritionist about helping him sketch out a meal plan tailored more to his individual needs, but he has no interest in doing this. I've said he doesn't have to make any actual diet changes right now, but at least he'd have the info available to him should he ever want to refer to it. Still not interested.

Not sure where the line is between "establishing boundaries" and "issuing ultimatums" but I've made it pretty clear I don't consider kids an option unless we're both making a sincere, consistent effort to look after our own health. I don't want to dismiss how difficult it is to make long-term lifestyle changes, and I'm not expecting either of us to have a perfect track record. But it's got to be a priority, or I won't feel we'd be living up to our responsibility as parents.

[apl68]

He told me he thought a good "gradual" plan would be to lose about one pound per year.

Dale Carnegie said, "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Remember, you can lead a horse to water...

As for gradual changes versus dramatic changes? It sounds like the way your mother did it may be the solution.  Take his (poor) choices away.  Stock the house with veggies, but make them just as fast.  IF he wants a snack, let him have his choice between carrots and celery or broccoli and cauliflower.  But cut them up so that they are ready to eat!

You may have to take his credit card away, though, or he will simply eat away from home. 


For gradual changes, offer tea. Start with sweet tea and slowly cut the sugar back over several weeks. 

Anyway, You have to decide how much pain and agony (bitching and whining) you are willing to tolerate.  In other threads you have indicated, (to be blunt) that this relationship may not be in your best interests.  While you are dependent on him, one approach is to keep him 'fat and happy'.  Once you are better yourself, and less dependent on him for YOUR care, then you will have more power to make the changes/ultimatums that will be necessary to encourage changes.  You can not convince him to the 'shape up or ship out' when you can not take care of yourself in the 'ship out' case.


Good luck.  But remember what Dale Carnegie said. 

Also, there is a difference between support and nagging, but the one on the receiving end may not be able to see the difference and all support becomes nagging.

sorry for the disjointed message.  I have similar issues, and I dont feel that my spouse is exactly supportive (as there is always an excuse to have a treat and start 'for real, NEXT week'.  (Mac and Cheese IS a vegetable!)  Anyway, I feel your struggles, and I am also on the scale bouncing around not just Obese, but Morbidly Obese. 

But One pound a year?  That is signal that he is not at all interested, and does not WANT 'help'.  He wants to be left to his own, so you are in for an uphill fight.

One extra complication is he has a legitimate medical reason to avoid certain types of food often recommended for 'healthier' eating. He can't have high-fiber foods, so a lot of whole grains and certain fruits and veggies are out. It makes me nervous about making his dietary decisions for him. I've begged him to speak with his GI or a nutritionist about helping him sketch out a meal plan tailored more to his individual needs, but he has no interest in doing this. I've said he doesn't have to make any actual diet changes right now, but at least he'd have the info available to him should he ever want to refer to it. Still not interested.

Not sure where the line is between "establishing boundaries" and "issuing ultimatums" but I've made it pretty clear I don't consider kids an option unless we're both making a sincere, consistent effort to look after our own health. I don't want to dismiss how difficult it is to make long-term lifestyle changes, and I'm not expecting either of us to have a perfect track record. But it's got to be a priority, or I won't feel we'd be living up to our responsibility as parents.

I've been in a situation much like this, with a spouse who needed badly to lose weight for health reasons but was resistant to any efforts to encourage that.  It got in the way of our having children as well.  With hindsight that was a blessing, I suppose, since spouse ended up eventually abandoning me.

[Faith786]

If I ask for specifics (like "so BP and cholesterol were normal?") he says it's not my business.

This part just raises red flags for me.
SO's health and wellbeing is your business.
I've seen families reviewing a printout of a lab results and having conversations amongst themselves about how to make their lifestyle better e.g. if bad cholesterol levels are high then avoid purchasing butter, shrimp, and coconut oil; use egg whites, etc.

[Faith786]

BTW I apparently lost 4 pounds and 1% body fat by extreme calorie deficit.
It's not sustainable and probably won't last, but I feel happier anyhow!

[notmycircus]

Often a serious medical diagnosis can lead to positive changes and healthful choices.  Worked for me.  Quit smoking, exercising daily, eating well most of the time, and content.  When you are involved in unhealthy behaviors you are not stupid.  You're smart, you know all of the risks, but you continue to make stupid choices because it brings some type of comfort.  Not rocket science.

[FishProf]

BTW I apparently lost 4 pounds and 1% body fat by extreme calorie deficit.
It's not sustainable and probably won't last, but I feel happier anyhow!

I lost about 4 lbs yesterday by being bedridden after Pfizer shot 2.

I don't think I can spin this into a bestselling diet book, however...

[Kron3007]

If I ask for specifics (like "so BP and cholesterol were normal?") he says it's not my business.

This part just raises red flags for me.
SO's health and wellbeing is your business.
I've seen families reviewing a printout of a lab results and having conversations amongst themselves about how to make their lifestyle better e.g. if bad cholesterol levels are high then avoid purchasing butter, shrimp, and coconut oil; use egg whites, etc.

Me too.  If you are discussing children, I think their health and lifestyle are very much your business (and vice versa).