MS Degree

[Vid]

Folks: Considering most of the NSF programs in my research area are shifting towards computing, I am really thinking about applying for an online MS degree in Computer Science in a top research university (please don't call me crazy:-) I really love computer science/data science/programming)! but not sure if it is going to impact my research program and my tenure process. My background is in Engineering and maybe I could use/transfer some of my MS/PhD credits.

What are the pros and cons of getting a MS degree while on Tenure Track statutes? Should I inform my department if I get started?

Thank you.

[Hibush]

You are done getting degrees. Going far backwards to an MS seems highly counterproductive.

[ciao_yall]

Why not just take a class or two to refresh your skills?

[clean]

Getting a degree takes time.  Time is your most preciouses resource.  Where will the time come from?  Is that something that should be going to things measured by a Tenure and Promotion Committee?

If you think that a Masters degree will help you, why not wait until tenured? 
Does your employer offer an Employee Betterment Program where they will pay for classes for you?

The bottom line is that it is not a good idea.


As a practical example, in my early education days, I was working for a professor as part of my assistantship while earning MY masters degreee.  The professor I was working for was sure that he would not be getting tenure so he diverted some research time toward a ma in Math.  He then moved on, using his increased math skills to get a different job somewhere else.  (jAs he suspected, he was not tenured!)

IS this your intention? 

[arcturus]

Yes, if you plan to not earn tenure, then taking classes that provide skills/professional degree that will assist in your transition to another career is an ok plan. However, if you want to have a chance at earning tenure, then all of your time should be devoted to activities that advance that goal: research, teaching, and service. Your time as a tenure-track faculty member is short. You will be judged based on how you best utilize that time. At a research-focused institution, that means publications and grants while also doing a credible job on teaching and service. At a teaching-focused institution, that means evidence of student engagement, while doing a credible job on research and service. Nowhere is there space/time for pursuing an additional degree. Even taking classes is a distraction from your primary duties during this critical (limited) time.

If you need computing skills that you do not currently have to complete your research, you should consider collaborating with someone who does have those skills. Collaborators can be at your own institution or at other locations.  Good collaborations improve the quality of research and enable both (all) participants to attempt projects that they could not do on their own.

[polly_mer]

You're already an engineer. Acquiring data science and computational skills is a matter of attending workshops, working through self-paced tutorials, and expanding your discussion groups.  Taking a specific class or two may be worth your while.

An MS in CS is a misguided credentialism that won't serve you well, especially if you're thinking of a career change.

My current professional life is computational science.  No one has a CS degree.  We're all engineers, scientists, and mathematicians who picked it up along the way.

[Faith786]

Wow I am so interested in all of these replies.

I thought that if OP did a degree part-time, one class at a time, it wouldn't take too much time away from the tenure-track, but it seems everyone says NO, DON'T DO IT!!

My former supervisor revealed to me that they are doing a Masters.  Not too many people know this secret of theirs.  They are tenured though, so maybe they are confident that they can finish it now...maybe it would not be possible to do this on the tenure-track, or it would be VERY difficult?

[polly_mer]

I thought that if OP did a degree part-time, one class at a time, it wouldn't take too much time away from the tenure-track, but it seems everyone says NO, DON'T DO IT!!

Get back to us after your first TT year teaching classes, setting up your research group, and doing all the other activities.

You have never been busy like those first couple years on the TT.

You've never been mentally exhausted the way those first few years go.  The dissertation doesn't compare because it was only one project instead of juggling several.  Even if you were teaching, the probability is good that much of your experience will be irrelevant with a different student body.

My former supervisor revealed to me that they are doing a Masters.  Not too many people know this secret of theirs.  They are tenured though, so maybe they are confident that they can finish it now...maybe it would not be possible to do this on the tenure-track, or it would be VERY difficult?

Being an established person with routines and well past the vertical learning curve is very different than being in the middle of the start-up phase that may last ten years. 

It's also unusual to get a master's degree after any doctorate because of the low return on effort.  In a handful of fields, doing a related clinical master's after a research doctorate is logical.  Doing a research master's degree after a clinical doctorate can make sense in a handful of situations.

Some people do a higher ed master's in an effort to change tracks in academia.  We call those people suckers because the degree is not nearly as useful as relevant experience and the network established through regular workshop and accreditation conference attendance.

Most instances of getting an online, courses-only master's degrees are a sucker bet unless the employer will give a raise for mere possession of another credential.  Thus, someone who is TT/T is probably wasting their time and money if the new degree isn't filling a professional gap between clinical and research.

[downer]

I knew one person who was getting a masters degree while tenured. It was at their own university, so I don't think it was a secret. But it was in a different field from their PhD. I'm pretty sure this person was using it as a way to get prepare for like outside academia. Things blew up before the degree was finished.

It might make sense for pursuing interdisciplinary work -- I know someone who did that, while finishing up their PhD, and successfully.

But in the OP's case it doesn't make a lot of sense, for the reasons already spelled out.

[Faith786]

Get back to us after your first TT year teaching classes, setting up your research group, and doing all the other activities.

You have never been busy like those first couple years on the TT.

You've never been mentally exhausted the way those first few years go.  The dissertation doesn't compare because it was only one project instead of juggling several.  Even if you were teaching, the probability is good that much of your experience will be irrelevant with a different student body.

Duly noted. I admit I did hear that the first year on the TT is the hardest...I hope to make it out alive... ;-)

[polly_mer]

Get back to us after your first TT year teaching classes, setting up your research group, and doing all the other activities.

You have never been busy like those first couple years on the TT.

You've never been mentally exhausted the way those first few years go.  The dissertation doesn't compare because it was only one project instead of juggling several.  Even if you were teaching, the probability is good that much of your experience will be irrelevant with a different student body.

Duly noted. I admit I did hear that the first year on the TT is the hardest...I hope to make it out alive... ;-)

Interestingly, the first year may not be the worst if you get course releases and are protected from service.  The fourth year as the protections go away and the third year review lays out specific thresholds to be met in short order can be worse.

[Faith786]

Interestingly, the first year may not be the worst if you get course releases and are protected from service.  The fourth year as the protections go away and the third year review lays out specific thresholds to be met in short order can be worse.

I did get a bit of a course release during the first year, but I imagine that's probably because it's expected that it's going to be a tough first year?!

[Ruralguy]

Yes, many schools give 1st year course releases, and even places like mine give service/advising release. And its because no matter where you are---top flight R1 or so-so SLAC, its going to be difficult. That doesn't mean its misery for everyone, but it does mean everyone has to juggle a lot and get a lot of different things going professionally and personally. 

I don't know enough about precisely what Vid is doing or what transition he wishes to make, but I also suspect its a big diversion to get a CS degree. Somewhat like Polly, but within the context of a (mostly) teaching position for the last 2 decades,  I've been an experimental and computational scientist. I think I maybe took one formal programming course at a college/university, and one course offered by the corporation that started the programming language. I no longer use either of these languages! I am only using things I taught myself. My colleagues would likely say "And it shows, Dr. "Kludge"!", but hey, it all works.  Seriously, there's a lot to be said for formal CS training, but I don't think most active scientists would need it unless its absolutely required to be formal credentialed.

[polly_mer]

Seriously, there's a lot to be said for formal CS training, but I don't think most active scientists would need it unless its absolutely required to be formal credentialed.

CS isn't programming.

CS isn't learning how to use R or Python modules for data analysis.

CS is its own thing that can be very valuable, but it's not mostly using computers just like getting an English degree isn't mostly about using Word, Zotero, and library classification systems.

[hazelshade]

OP, if you really feel you need to retrain to remain a viable candidate for NSF funding in your field, you may want to look at programs that provide opportunities for re-training (Mid-Career Advancement and EPSCoR Track IV Fellows are two through NSF--MCA is definitely open to engineers, and the other program is open to all disciplines but is only for researchers in specific states). I agree with Polly that workshops, classes, and self-paced tutorials are the way to go, rather than a formal credential. You may also want to look into what resources are available within your institution (and to think creatively about it). At my SLAC, someone wishing to develop their computational skills could get some institutional funding to do it if they could make a compelling case it would benefit their teaching.