MLA’s recommended salaries

[Wahoo Redux]

Oh good grief, people.  There is no mystery about faculty salaries in the humanities.  We know what we are looking at and we know what we can negotiate for. 

Do you just gloat and look for digs at the "out of touch" humanities?  Y'all are that cool yourselves?

You've got a single statement from MLA that is probably meant to be provocative.  You make a vast conclusion about the types of people who work in a number of disciplines.  Smart people generally don't think that way.  You are obviously smart people.  What gives?

Grow up.

[Mobius]

It seems like most of the stories of retracted offers are in the humanities and social sciences. Part of it is the differences in needs for a new hire. Someone teaching humanities and social sciences at a super dinky SLAC or regional comprehensive will likely not get startup funds or ongoing research money compared to a someone teaching in the natural sciences.

[kaysixteen]

Humanities scholars neither need nor likely should get the 'start up funding' for research agendas stem folks need.

[Ruralguy]

I noticed an ad for a prestigious STEM postdoc that advertised a salary of 60K. In my experience, we usually offer our junior faculty a bit less than the best post docs. While 75K wouldn't be utterly insane for a salary offered to someone in a highly desirable field, as a regular goal for all assistant profs, andespecially humanities, but not unique to them, it would be unrealistic  for non elite schools.

[mahagonny]

So now MLA is conscientiously moving into an activist role.  Great.  But I suspect it is too late.  They should have been all over the adjunct situation decades ago. 

Everyone is against the adjunct situation and also afraid someone's going to keep talking about it.

You've got a single statement from MLA that is probably meant to be provocative.  You make a vast conclusion about the types of people who work in a number of disciplines.  Smart people generally don't think that way.  You are obviously smart people.  What gives?

Grow up.

Maybe not growing up is what is working.

[mleok]

Humanities scholars neither need nor likely should get the 'start up funding' for research agendas stem folks need.

It's not even a STEM vs. non-STEM issue, mathematicians and theoretical physicists have startup needs that are more comparable to humanities faculty than experimental physicists or chemists, except maybe we need better computing equipment.

[mleok]

I noticed an ad for a prestigious STEM postdoc that advertised a salary of 60K. In my experience, we usually offer our junior faculty a bit less than the best post docs. While 75K wouldn't be utterly insane for a salary offered to someone in a highly desirable field, as a regular goal for all assistant profs, andespecially humanities, but not unique to them, it would be unrealistic  for non elite schools.

I also think it's impossible to advocate for such a starting salary for assistant professors when postdocs and adjuncts get paid so little in that field. When I moved from my postdoc to an assistant professorship, the salary increase was about 40%. I don't think a salary scale in the humanities where a starting assistant professor makes two to three times what they were making before is realistic however.

[mleok]

You've got a single statement from MLA that is probably meant to be provocative.  You make a vast conclusion about the types of people who work in a number of disciplines.  Smart people generally don't think that way.  You are obviously smart people.  What gives?

I made no such generalization, I simply said that a professional organization making such "provocative" statements feed into a narrative that paints faculty in the area that they represent as being disconnected with reality, which is counterproductive when advocating for the field. Again, more detailed information about salary norms at different career stages and different institutional types provides far more useful and actionable information, both for departments and job seekers.

[spork]

You've got a single statement from MLA that is probably meant to be provocative.  You make a vast conclusion about the types of people who work in a number of disciplines.  Smart people generally don't think that way.  You are obviously smart people.  What gives?

I made no such generalization, I simply said that a professional organization making such "provocative" statements feed into a narrative that paints faculty in the area that they represent as being disconnected with reality, which is counterproductive when advocating for the field. Again, more detailed information about salary norms at different career stages and different institutional types provides far more useful and actionable information, both for departments and job seekers.

Having presented at regional MLA conferences, I agree.

In relation to something I posted on the dire straits thread, the webpage for the English program at one of the Maine universities I mentioned lists two faculty members at the rank of professor. Their average annual salary is $72,800, lower than what the MLA is recommended for new assistant professor hires.

[Wahoo Redux]

You've got a single statement from MLA that is probably meant to be provocative.  You make a vast conclusion about the types of people who work in a number of disciplines.  Smart people generally don't think that way.  You are obviously smart people.  What gives?

I made no such generalization, I simply said that a professional organization making such "provocative" statements feed into a narrative that paints faculty in the area that they represent as being disconnected with reality, which is counterproductive when advocating for the field. Again, more detailed information about salary norms at different career stages and different institutional types provides far more useful and actionable information, both for departments and job seekers.

Fair enough.

But I am not sure such a "narrative" exists unless people propagate it. 

The MLA is not a wealthy organization (part of its relative powerlessness) but it has done some good material which is also evidenced on that very site.

This "narrative" exists about the entire profession, BTW.  Certainly you are aware of the adjective "professorial?"  This includes you and me in the public eye.

[mleok]

This "narrative" exists about the entire profession, BTW.  Certainly you are aware of the adjective "professorial?"  This includes you and me in the public eye.

Again, I'm not asserting the validity of the "narrative," but it would be naive to deny that it exists. I will however go further and say that while it might be applied to the entire profession, the "ivory tower" narrative tends to get fed mostly by the actions of a small handful of humanities scholars. The MLA providing additional fodder to the narrative does nobody any favors.

[Wahoo Redux]

the "ivory tower" narrative tends to get fed mostly by the actions of a small handful of humanities scholars. The MLA providing additional fodder to the narrative does nobody any favors.

Really?

How did you come to that conclusion?

My understanding is that "Those who cannot do teach" refers to business professors who teach people about business but have no actual business experience. 

[mleok]

the "ivory tower" narrative tends to get fed mostly by the actions of a small handful of humanities scholars. The MLA providing additional fodder to the narrative does nobody any favors.

Really?

How did you come to that conclusion?

My understanding is that "Those who cannot do teach" refers to business professors who teach people about business but have no actual business experience.

Maybe they were just referring to full time lecturers who do nothing but teach...

[Wahoo Redux]

the "ivory tower" narrative tends to get fed mostly by the actions of a small handful of humanities scholars. The MLA providing additional fodder to the narrative does nobody any favors.

Really?

How did you come to that conclusion?

My understanding is that "Those who cannot do teach" refers to business professors who teach people about business but have no actual business experience.

Maybe they were just referring to full time lecturers who do nothing but teach...

My ex-brother-in-law was a machinist.  He also taught machining at a community college.  Occasionally he would have visits from "engineers" who would ask him and he friends questions about his work.  Dwight, my ex-brother-in-law, loved to gloat about "talking circles around engineers."  It seemed apparent to me that the engineers, some of whom were from the big land grant school if I remember correctly, were obviously trying to broaden their already broad knowledge with some specifics----but to Dwight they were a bunch of eggheads who had no idea how to actually do the work.

Watch Cheers or Mad About You for examples of academics in pop-culture.

I looked up "Ivory Tower." There are plenty of entries on Google. It's us. All of us.

The point is not to become grinning jackals.  There are lots of reasons that the culture has turned its cannons towards the Tower these days.  Let's not turn on each other----and there are some people on these boards who are absolutely bent upon internecine conflict.   

[Ruralguy]

I think I heard that about any kind of teacher or professor.  It's just one of those
expressions to show that we are good at learning and reading and stuff, but nothing
practical. The fact that some of do a lot of research probably doesn't impress much of anyone
outside of academia. I suppose every so often someone is impressed by a medical miracle or discovery
of a weird astronomical object, or even sometimes a good social scientific study or creative work.