handling a work situation with non-academic center director

[Vid]

The center dir says these are for showing the VP and also our record! I am not sure if the VP needs to know about my 8am-5pm schedule. anyway it is like a report card.

I joined this institution 2 years ago, 1-2 months before the pandemic and it has been a few months since we are in-person, so I am learning and navigating the system and hopefully I will find a trusted colleague who can give me some tips about the connections here.

mleok; Exactly--I like this--"you get more bees with honey than vinegar." bc I am new and learning their politics/connections and once I learned it I will be following my strategies accordingly!

Thanks, folks.

[Kron3007]

The center dir says these are for showing the VP and also our record! I am not sure if the VP needs to know about my 8am-5pm schedule. anyway it is like a report card.

I joined this institution 2 years ago, 1-2 months before the pandemic and it has been a few months since we are in-person, so I am learning and navigating the system and hopefully I will find a trusted colleague who can give me some tips about the connections here.

mleok; Exactly--I like this--"you get more bees with honey than vinegar." bc I am new and learning their politics/connections and once I learned it I will be following my strategies accordingly!

Thanks, folks.

This is true, but that doesn't mean you should be a door mat.  You should definitely pull your weight and pitch in, but sometimes being to accommodating is only rewarded with more work and being walked upon.

You should always be polite and respectful, but you also need to advocate for yourself and know when and where to draw boundaries.  As for reporting hours, this seems like an overreach on their part. No have never heard of faculty reporting hours in this manner.

[Ruralguy]

My guess is that someone has requested that the Center Director provide info on the total hours center members contribute to the center business. They may have not meant this too literally, but perhaps the CD did, and is now asking people for "time cards." Or, some granting agency or whatever wants it.  I have heard of this for post-docs, but usually only when it was contracted through a third party. I have not heard of this for faculty with direct contracts with institution involved.

It sounds like most of this is *annoying* but not onerous? If just annoying, proceed until you figure out the politics. Be polite and don't start conflicts with the director. Find that trusted senior colleague.

You mention you are "new." You've been at it for 2 years. While not "seasoned," it seems to be a little too long to be ambling into conflicts without any kind of direction from senior colleagues.

Although, Kron, I get your points, its easier to express these concerns if you survive the probationary period for tenure. I am not a strong believer in universal STFU before tenure, but nor do I think a 2nd or 3rd year faculty member should be labelled as a problem child (even if he does good research and teaching. etc.).

[Kron3007]

My guess is that someone has requested that the Center Director provide info on the total hours center members contribute to the center business. They may have not meant this too literally, but perhaps the CD did, and is now asking people for "time cards." Or, some granting agency or whatever wants it.  I have heard of this for post-docs, but usually only when it was contracted through a third party. I have not heard of this for faculty with direct contracts with institution involved.

It sounds like most of this is *annoying* but not onerous? If just annoying, proceed until you figure out the politics. Be polite and don't start conflicts with the director. Find that trusted senior colleague.

You mention you are "new." You've been at it for 2 years. While not "seasoned," it seems to be a little too long to be ambling into conflicts without any kind of direction from senior colleagues.

Although, Kron, I get your points, its easier to express these concerns if you survive the probationary period for tenure. I am not a strong believer in universal STFU before tenure, but nor do I think a 2nd or 3rd year faculty member should be labelled as a problem child (even if he does good research and teaching. etc.).

Yes, you definitely need to take my comments with a grain of salt and judge them based on your reality.  I am not advocating that you rock the boat, just that you advocate for yourself and avoid you and your students from being taken advantage of or otherwise not being supported as you should.

My advise is based on my personal experience and assumptions based on what you have told us (as is everyone's), so you definitely need to consider them within your own context.

I have experienced a (seemingly) similar situation.   I started a PhD program in an off campus research center in the US.  My advisor was recently recruited and was in a very similar position as the OP from the sounds of things (based in a department on campus, but physically located off campus in a center).  While he seemed familiar with the norms of academia and what it meant to be a graduate student, that was not the case for most of the staff at the center.  Until then, they had never had full time graduate students based there, and only had experience with some of their full time staff doing part time grad school programs.  As a result, their expectations were that we should be working full time for the center (essentially time cards), and doing our thesis project and course work on our own time (as you would expect from a part-time grad student). 

I raised the issue of being overworked and not having time to do my studies with my advisor several times.  Each time, he agreed and said he understood and would take action, but then the issues would continue and he would not step in.  Ultimately, I dropped out of that program and found a better one, most of his students did similar.  This experience has likely jaded my perspective, but it is important to recognize that you are the one that needs to set the stage for your staff and graduate students.  When you are off campus in a center like this, your role in this respect is that much more important and you need to make sure you are providing your students with a good academic experience.  If the director is treating faculty like this, I imagine it is no better for your staff and students. 

This is why I say that you need to be firm and set the boundaries of your research program.  From what you have told us, the dean explicitly said they are there to support you (not supervise), so I still believe you need to be assertive and tell them how you will be operating your independent research program (establishing an independent research program is one of the key terms used in assessing tenure here, so a good term to use).  Again, you need to be polite and tread carefully, but you also need to advocate for yourself and your students. 



   

[Vid]

Kron3007: 100%, I agree with you. This is what I am doing: setting the boundaries and protecting my rights. I think if you realize your self worth and deservability you will defend yourself...and NO I am not talking about vanity or pride or being rude and disrespectful but acting professionally and setting the boundaries and protecting yourself (you vs you!).

Ruralguy;  If defending myself makes me a "problem child" I am all about it! I am the one who did lift this department up both from grantsmanship as well as prestige (awards, recognitions, etc.). This department should learn how to create a welcoming, inclusive, and supportive environment which is the basis for growth and retaining the diverse team of faculty (both women and URMs)....and they have got a long way to go!

Thank you.

[mamselle]

Even the tenured R1 guys i worked for had to do time sheets (very generally structured, but still) for federal grants, university stats, and other stuff.

No-one is so precious that their work shouldn't be somehow be accountably structured, especially if, as my guys did, this grant covered so much of their time, and that grant another amount, teaching was another chunk, etc.

And that was a private school.

State schools have idiot politicians trying to grandstand over their ability to "oversee these preening professors" and the school will need as much solid data to protect programs and basic infrastructure funding as they can get.

Those run by, say, religious confessional organizations and other groups have other kinds of accountability needs.

it's called being a team player.

Get over it and fill out the silly time sheets.

M.

[Kron3007]

Even the tenured R1 guys i worked for had to do time sheets (very generally structured, but still) for federal grants, university stats, and other stuff.

No-one is so precious that their work shouldn't be somehow be accountably structured, especially if, as my guys did, this grant covered so much of their time, and that grant another amount, teaching was another chunk, etc.

And that was a private school.

State schools have idiot politicians trying to grandstand over their ability to "oversee these preening professors" and the school will need as much solid data to protect programs and basic infrastructure funding as they can get.

Those run by, say, religious confessional organizations and other groups have other kinds of accountability needs.

it's called being a team player.

Get over it and fill out the silly time sheets.

M.

If there is a good reason, the director should simply explain it.

Personally, I am far to precious to fill in time sheets that don't need to be filled in for someone who is not my supervisor, but would likely capitulate if there was justification.     

[inframarginal_externality]

It might be something as simple as effort reporting: https://www.cuny.edu/research/research-compliance/sponsored/guidance/post-award/effort/

[Kron3007]

It might be something as simple as effort reporting: https://www.cuny.edu/research/research-compliance/sponsored/guidance/post-award/effort/

Could be, and this would be equally easy to explain.

We do this for some grants where I am, but we just list what % of our effort is spent on it.  No one tracks our hours, but that could vary. 

Reporting hours to this level dosnt seem normal for faculty and justification should be given if it is required.  I dont even ask my students to report hours, nor does anyone else I know.

[Ruralguy]

We're really flying blind here, mostly because we don't know the norms of Vid's workplace or discipline. Also, the biggest question mark is really what the point is of Vid being at the center from the school's perspective. That would answer some questions. Without that information, Vid could be fighting outrageous behavior, or making a mountain of mole hill.

[mamselle]

Even the tenured R1 guys i worked for had to do time sheets (very generally structured, but still) for federal grants, university stats, and other stuff.

No-one is so precious that their work shouldn't be somehow be accountably structured, especially if, as my guys did, this grant covered so much of their time, and that grant another amount, teaching was another chunk, etc.

And that was a private school.

State schools have idiot politicians trying to grandstand over their ability to "oversee these preening professors" and the school will need as much solid data to protect programs and basic infrastructure funding as they can get.

Those run by, say, religious confessional organizations and other groups have other kinds of accountability needs.

it's called being a team player.

Get over it and fill out the silly time sheets.

M.

If there is a good reason, the director should simply explain it.

Personally, I am far to precious to fill in time sheets that don't need to be filled in for someone who is not my supervisor, but would likely capitulate if there was justification.   

Well, true, time (chron) is precious....

;--}

M.

[Vid]

The dean said it is out of the director' responsibility to ask for a report card (time sheet). The problem is the dean has no control over the center and the director is under the VP! but the faculty in the center are under the dean/college!

I amnot sure why I am with the center and why the department wants me to be in the center, isolated with no resources. But I feel there might be a fight among several departments in my college for the center and each department wants to claim that the center is theirs so my chair wants us to station there so that he can own the center! The center is new and perhaps has some good money! 

[Ruralguy]

I think the answers to these questions will be immensely helpful to arriving at an amenable solution.
In other words, you can't really answer a question if you aren't sure what the question is.  Right now,
it just amounts to some sort of personality conflict mixed with classic turf war, but understanding everyone's role
in that would be important to solving the problem.  Find a senior colleague, someone good at relating to people and
not easily brought into political battles, who can give you some perspective. If you can't find a person, just ask the Chair.
Might as well just say "I don't really understand the history here. Can you explain why the position is tied to the center..."
It sounds like you probably wouldn't be in any danger by stepping into that because you bring in significant grant money (probably
part of the answer to the question). It sounds like part of the solution is finding you main campus space of some sort, even if it isn't a
redundant lab (which you must realize can't be done unless they get rid of your  Center lab...but the Center is critical to your position...yet you
don't really even know why you are there!) . Also, the CD needs to have more of a gentle touch and figure out what your "team role" is without over-involving you in
bureaucracy.

[research_prof]

The dean said it is out of the director' responsibility to ask for a report card (time sheet). The problem is the dean has no control over the center and the director is under the VP! but the faculty in the center are under the dean/college!

I amnot sure why I am with the center and why the department wants me to be in the center, isolated with no resources. But I feel there might be a fight among several departments in my college for the center and each department wants to claim that the center is theirs so my chair wants us to station there so that he can own the center! The center is new and perhaps has some good money!

I have a simple question that has probably been answered above and I have missed it: since it sounds like you bring in a lot of indirect cost, you essentially have power over whoever takes advantage of this indirect cost. Does your indirect cost go to your college or the center?

In any case, it might be a good idea to politely remind whoever is receiving your indirect cost that this unpleasant situation may not allow you to generate indirect cost in the future. I have played that card a few times and it has worked pretty well.

[Ruralguy]

I think OP mentioned above that indirects (overhead, that is) go to center.

But as I believe Mleok mentioned above, this is a two way street. His university gives him the place to work, and that place is the center. If he threatens pulling the overhead, where would it go? I think a Dean could interpret that as essentially quitting at that point, so be careful. You can only use this threat if you have somewhere else to go (not necessarily another job, but other unit, etc.). Plus, this is a rather heavy handed response in duel of iron fists. Calmer reactions and *absolutely* well-informed reactions, would work better.

To Vid: figure out what the frack is going on first. Research_Prof is right about one thing here: Your money gives you leverage. But don't think of that as permission to threaten. Just use it as permission to speak freely, as in asking questions.