handling a work situation with non-academic center director

[Vid]

All,

Back to this issue. I emailed my Department Chair about the role of him vs center director and why most of my indirect goes to the center. I was a little direct in my email and apparently the chair didn't like it and forwarded my email to the dean and ass dean for research. Anyway, they arranged a meeting and there I explained that none of these processes (IDC, supervision of the center director, etc.) were mentioned in my offer letter (I had a copy of my offer letter with me). I explained to them my understanding of how their systems work. I called it system A (college/dept.) vs. System B (center/VP office--the center works under VP not college) and drew on a piece of paper how both systems work and how they are disconnected. Then I said, in my offer letter I didn't agree to work with system B . They said there is no system B (center and the VP office)! We only have system A  (department and college) and you are with system A. I said if I am with system A (department and college) why am I treated differently?  Why does my IDC go to the center? the chair said I should be worried about not getting your IDC! I said the department (academic unit) is my identity because of this academic unit I moved to this institution. I don't understand why they did not discuss with me any of these rules before accepting the offer letter! Anyway long story short they did not clarify much of my questions.

Regarding the center director micromanaging behavior: the dean said the role of the center is to be a "supporter" not a "supervisor". The dean said faculty are supervised by their department chair, not the director! He said he will tell the center director the same thing: that you are a supporter not a supervisor!

Anyway, during our meeting it appeared to me that my department chair gives greenlight to the center director to treat us this way. My department chair does not act as my supervisor, he treats myself and other faculty affiliated with the centers (there are 4-5 centers) as an add-on package to the department!

I am just learning the politics here (...but frustrated) and at the same time staying away from it!

Thank you, folks.   

[Vid]

Also, whatever I discuss about my concerns to the department chair, he forwards my emails to the dean and ass dean for research. or if we discuss verbally he calls them and explains what happened, should I be worried about his action?

[Ruralguy]

The general arrangement is common: members of a traditional department are also members of a center. But the dept. members are generally "supervised" (not in the usual workplace sense---but in the academic sense of arranging schedules, keeping on schedule for evaluations/tenure/promotion,  budgets) by the department chair.

But the problem that I have seen arise in similar situations is that the center director is some up and coming type A+ personality go getter, and is thus very used to demanding things, being bossy, etc. So, they often basically try to supervise everybody so they can get what they want. But there are limits. That doesn't mean they can't make requests of you. If they become unreasonable, then its up to your chair to either let it happen or defend you.

As for IDC, I'm not sure why you care. When I get my Dean or whomever to sign off on a grant proposal, there's no implied agreement that this IDC goes back to the dept.. It can all go wherever its needed to keep the college running. If the idea is that if the IDC goes to the Center, then the center director gets to boss you, well, as your powers that be said, that's not the supervisory structure involved, though I guess the center director probably had a lot to do with growing the position, and probably made some sort of deal to get some IDC back. My guess is that you are getting yourself into trouble by protesting this. try to get a trusted senior faculty member to get the story for you.

[mleok]

Usually, running the IDC of a substantial grant through a unit gives you leverage over the unit, not the other way around. I think you need to talk to a senior faculty colleague to help explain to you the underlying political issues at play.

[Caracal]

Often in academia, the person who calls the question loses. I get a very strong sense that nobody wants to deal with this. You should follow their lead. If I was in your position, I would be inclined to:

1. Just don't respond to the emails asking you to fill out these forms. It is quite possible if you do this that they will just keep sending you them every three months and you can happily ignore them forever.

2. If someone does write you reminding you to fill out the form, just complete it in the most desultory fashion possible. "When will you be back in the office?" "January 21-30." Just list grants and provide nothing more than one sentence explanations. Feel free to write "N/A" anytime it would be annoying to provide an answer.

If it turns out this person really wants to micromanage you, you might have to deal with it. My suspicion is that they just want to pretend to be in charge and the best way to deal with it is it to delay, dodge and hide.

[Vid]

Thank you Ruralguy and mleok,

In the meeting with the dean, I requested to have a lab on campus as I have some international students who don't have a car to come to the center (the center is 8-10 miles away from the campus). The dean said there are some spaces available in building AA that we can give you, but suddenly my department chair jumped into the conversation and said I will give you an office (Dr. Smith'office)! I said okay and I thanked him. After 2-3 days I went to my department chair and asked him about Dr. Smith'office, he gave me a tour of all the labs in the department, he said this is faculty A lab, this is faculty B lab, and so on. and you know we don't have space available! and then he said there is a room available I can show you to see if you want it. He took me to a janitor'sroom and said this is available but does not have internet, cable or anything. The room was full of junk, I just thanked him and left the conversation respectfully (..I couldn't handle his disrespectful action!). He then called the ass dean for research and explained what happened. I  went to ass dean for research, I told her about this story, she got really mad about this. Anyway, ass dean for research said your department chair doesn't want you to be on campus as he thinks if you are outside the center you will not collaborate with other faculty at the center.

I feel this is the politics that my department chair +center director are playing and I decided not to go to my department chair for this type of conversation anymore! I am at the stage in my career where I appreciate consistency! 

Thank you.

[mleok]

Thank you Ruralguy and mleok,

In the meeting with the dean, I requested to have a lab on campus as I have some international students who don't have a car to come to the center (the center is 8-10 miles away from the campus). The dean said there are some spaces available in building AA that we can give you, but suddenly my department chair jumped into the conversation and said I will give you an office (Dr. Smith'office)! I said okay and I thanked him. After 2-3 days I went to my department chair and asked him about Dr. Smith'office, he gave me a tour of all the labs in the department, he said this is faculty A lab, this is faculty B lab, and so on. and you know we don't have space available! and then he said there is a room available I can show you to see if you want it. He took me to a janitor'sroom and said this is available but does not have internet, cable or anything. The room was full of junk, I just thanked him and left the conversation respectfully (..I couldn't handle his disrespectful action!). He then called the ass dean for research and explained what happened. I  went to ass dean for research, I told her about this story, she got really mad about this. Anyway, ass dean for research said your department chair doesn't want you to be on campus as he thinks if you are outside the center you will not collaborate with other faculty at the center.

I feel this is the politics that my department chair +center director are playing and I decided not to go to my department chair for this type of conversation anymore! I am at the stage in my career where I appreciate consistency!

Thank you.

Honestly, this might be for as simple a reason as your IDC not going back to the department. Lab spaces are expensive, highly sought-after resources, and departments will defend these fiercely, particularly if they think you have access to other space that is not within their control. Put another way, your department chair does not need to be colluding with the center director in order to behave the way that you describe. They just might not be willing to assign you space just because you're having a personality conflict with the center director.

[Ruralguy]

I just don't understand the situation. There must be a reason why you are at this center. Does your research relate to anything the center does? If it doesn't, I don't see why the center needs or wants you (other than money, that is). If it does, try to collaborate with some people. Otherwise, it will become just a place to park and you'll get everyone against you.

[Kron3007]

Sounds like it didn't go exactly as you had hoped, but I think it was good that you raised the issue and were direct.  At least they know it is an issue at all and you got some answers.

In fact, it sounds like you actually got a pretty clear answer to your main question and the director of the centre is there to support not supervise.  Based on this, I would stop "reporting".  If he keeps asking, I would tell him that you don't report to him and that you, nor your staff, will be filling in reports of this nature.  In fact, I would flip the script a little and start asserting your needs.  You pay overhead and they are there to support your program.

Regarding a lab on campus, I wouldn't really bother.  Instead, I would focus on building you own capacity where you are and perhaps building collaborations with people on campus so your students can use their facilities as needed.  Of course, I don't know a lot of the details, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but a second lab sounds like a headache and huge expense.  There would be a lot of redundancy having two labs (at least in my field).

[Kron3007]

I will also mention that the department may have strategic reasons to want you at the centre.  An example from my department is that we use to have several professors at a centre, but it is now down to one.  It is important for us to have them there simply to have a presence there.  This has a lot of political reasons that may not be obvious.

[Puget]

Honestly, this might be for as simple a reason as your IDC not going back to the department. Lab spaces are expensive, highly sought-after resources, and departments will defend these fiercely, particularly if they think you have access to other space that is not within their control. Put another way, your department chair does not need to be colluding with the center director in order to behave the way that you describe. They just might not be willing to assign you space just because you're having a personality conflict with the center director.

We have zero extra lab space available, so this would have been a complete non-starter here. We are worrying about where in hell we can put our next hire, so certainly no one is getting two labs. Offices are also in scarce supply. I don't think we're that unusual in this, so I would be inclined to believe your chair when he says there is no room.

[Ruralguy]

The "no space" thing can be very real, and might even have a lot to do with why your dept. agreed to have a position that would be house at the center. The Director, unsurprisingly, wants something for this favor. Of course, he should communicate this politely and act like a decent "boss" (I get that he isn't *your* boss, Vid). I think everyone here just needs to be calmer, and say what it is that they expect or want with being suspicious. This should start with your dept. being honest about why they arranged this position through the center and what they expect out of it. The the director needs to chime in. Then you can respond, Vid. But I do think there has to be some sort of discussion. But, before that, see if a senior colleague can clue you in as to the politics here.

[Vid]

Thank you, folks. Yeah the space in my department is limited, but my department chair gave a lab to one of the faculty who is affiliated like me with the center (he joined the job just last year (a year after me)--he does field work so having a lab in the center where there is more space available for his type of research makes much more sense to say the least!)! Anyway, I have to navigate the politics here or else just let it be!

[mleok]

Thank you, folks. Yeah the space in my department is limited, but my department chair gave a lab to one of the faculty who is affiliated like me with the center (he joined the job just last year (a year after me)--he does field work so having a lab in the center where there is more space available for his type of research makes much more sense to say the least!)! Anyway, I have to navigate the politics here or else just let it be!

It has been said that, "you get more bees with honey than vinegar." There might be underlying personality conflicts that hinder your ability to get what you want, you definitely need a senior mentor at your institution who can help you navigate the politics there.

[ciao_yall]

Do these reports/updates take that much time?

Have you ever even asked the Center Director what these are for, or who these are for?

I have been following this thread for some time now and not sure I understand the problem in the first place.