handling a work situation with non-academic center director

[research_prof]

Vid, it's clear you're unhappy, but you also seem to have a real challenge navigating the politics of higher education, and that's a skill you're going to have to acquire, whether you like it or not. Moving is not going to obliviate the need for you to acquire that skill.

So you are saying there are no universities and departments where politics does not exist? I still wanted to believe that there is an ideal place for researchers (like me and Vid!), who just want to do their research, write their grants, publish their papers, work with their students, and not waste energy and time on how to play politics.

Unless you are a department of one, the answer is no. In academia, there are always issues of shared resources, and resource constraints, that we have to navigate. You make it sound like grant writing and publications are totally devoid of politics, which I think is a somewhat naive statement.

I echo what vid said above. Politics may be good or bad. For me, politics related to papers and grants is politics I am willing to play. Politics in my department or college where barely any faculty does serious research and they try to bring me down to their level because I am 10x more productive than them by playing politics is bad politics which I am not willing to play.

Vid's situation sounds like the latter.

[Ruralguy]

You are simply resentful that you owe something (your job) to people you don't respect. Keep in mind that you have been given the infrastructure to do your work. They probably hired you *because* you are better than them (at grantsmanship and publishing anyway). So, appreciate that a bit.

[research_prof]

You are simply resentful that you owe something (your job) to people you don't respect. Keep in mind that you have been given the infrastructure to do your work. They probably hired you *because* you are better than them (at grantsmanship and publishing anyway). So, appreciate that a bit.

I was given nothing at all. The entire infrastructure was built with grant funding, which (guess what) my research has generated. Also, I am in a field that if I select at any point to go to industry, I will be making 2-3 times the money I make now, so I do not think I owe anything to anyone.

[fizzycist]

I have experience regarding centers of a similar sort to the one OP describes. And I can relate to the difficulty of managing the complicated dynamics they create.

But here is what I don't get:
If a center director starts micromanaging and generally making things annoying, the faculty in the center typically get together and complain about it and figure out ways to make it go away.

It might involve asking Chairs and Deans for advice, but more likely it would first involve open discussion in center faculty meetings, 1:1 meetings with the center director, meeting with the center director's advisory board members, etc.

So what I don't understand is why OP is not reporting on these organic efforts to solve the problem. Is it because the other faculty don't see it as a problem? Or because OP does not get along with the faculty in the center? They would appear to be OP's most natural allies and there is usually power in numbers, if organized.

[mleok]

I echo what vid said above. Politics may be good or bad. For me, politics related to papers and grants is politics I am willing to play. Politics in my department or college where barely any faculty does serious research and they try to bring me down to their level because I am 10x more productive than them by playing politics is bad politics which I am not willing to play.

Vid's situation sounds like the latter.

If your and Vid's work are truly as significant and groundbreaking as the both of you seem to think, then you'll eventually be able to move to a department where your research productivity is somewhat more comparable to your colleagues, so a solution does exist.

[mleok]

You are simply resentful that you owe something (your job) to people you don't respect. Keep in mind that you have been given the infrastructure to do your work. They probably hired you *because* you are better than them (at grantsmanship and publishing anyway). So, appreciate that a bit.

I was given nothing at all. The entire infrastructure was built with grant funding, which (guess what) my research has generated. Also, I am in a field that if I select at any point to go to industry, I will be making 2-3 times the money I make now, so I do not think I owe anything to anyone.

So, your options are to move to a significantly better institution, move to industry, or treat your colleagues with respect instead of contempt. What's holding you back?

[Ruralguy]

My point isn't so much that high powered researchers aren't doing the work behind their successes, its that everybody is dependent on other people. The extent to which it seems like you are not dependent probably just means some people behind the scenes are doing their job extremely well.

So, yes, your grant IDC's may be paying the electric bill, but probably somebody allowed you to sit in a certain lab and office *if* you provided them the IDC money for the electric bill, support staff, etc.. You can't treat the people that allowed that and facilitated it like a bunch of morons who are getting in your way.

I think it was Larryc some years ago who said that if you start thinking "Everybody else is an idiot..." then you should probably start taking a look at yourself some more. That's not to say that you aren't a superior intellect. But this doesn't give you the right to steamroll other people (who sometimes are also great intellects--or not).

[mleok]

I think it was Larryc some years ago who said that if you start thinking "Everybody else is an idiot..." then you should probably start taking a look at yourself some more. That's not to say that you aren't a superior intellect. But this doesn't give you the right to steamroll other people (who sometimes are also great intellects--or not).

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

― Raylan Givens, Justified

[ciao_yall]

As someone in a job who has to ask people to report certain things in a certain way because of State requirements, I would just as soon not have to deal with someone else who explains to me that (1) This is stupid, and (2) Their time would be better off spent...

Look, I don't make the rules. And maybe it is stupid. No, I'm not sure how the State uses it, either.

But hey, the State does fund us, so spend the 5 damn minutes a week following the damn directions instead of 10 minutes a week complaining about it.

[mleok]

I will say the following, if you're in a field where you require lab space, then chances are that your IDC do not actually cover the full cost of the research infrastructure for your research, so from a purely financial perspective, you're a net loss to the operating budget of the university. It's a different matter if you're a theorist with a huge grant, since no additional space is being assigned to you.

While universities do like big grants because of the prestige it brings to them, one has to be careful in thinking that it actually benefits them financially in a direct manner. Put another way, there are limits to how much a junior faculty member can act like a prima donna, irrespective of how much grant IDC they bring in.

Learn to get along with your colleagues, or at least not be a mutual annoyance on a daily basis, or leave for greener pastures. Just because the other person is being unreasonable, doesn't mean that you're being reasonable.

[Kron3007]

As someone in a job who has to ask people to report certain things in a certain way because of State requirements, I would just as soon not have to deal with someone else who explains to me that (1) This is stupid, and (2) Their time would be better off spent...

Look, I don't make the rules. And maybe it is stupid. No, I'm not sure how the State uses it, either.

But hey, the State does fund us, so spend the 5 damn minutes a week following the damn directions instead of 10 minutes a week complaining about it.

Well, I hope you explain why you are asking for the details you require.  This would go a long way to prevent these issues.

[Kron3007]

I will say the following, if you're in a field where you require lab space, then chances are that your IDC do not actually cover the full cost of the research infrastructure for your research, so from a purely financial perspective, you're a net loss to the operating budget of the university. It's a different matter if you're a theorist with a huge grant, since no additional space is being assigned to you.

While universities do like big grants because of the prestige it brings to them, one has to be careful in thinking that it actually benefits them financially in a direct manner. Put another way, there are limits to how much a junior faculty member can act like a prima donna, irrespective of how much grant IDC they bring in.

Learn to get along with your colleagues, or at least not be a mutual annoyance on a daily basis, or leave for greener pastures. Just because the other person is being unreasonable, doesn't mean that you're being reasonable.

This is definitely true where I am, but I assume their numbers are looking at averages and while most faculty are a net "loss", the ones that bring in really big grants balance some of this out and are "positive".  Obviously it is more complex than this, but if you happen. To be one of the few that are positive you likely have quite a bit of leverage.  If for no other reason than you are likely to have many other options.

[research_prof]

I will say the following, if you're in a field where you require lab space, then chances are that your IDC do not actually cover the full cost of the research infrastructure for your research, so from a purely financial perspective, you're a net loss to the operating budget of the university. It's a different matter if you're a theorist with a huge grant, since no additional space is being assigned to you.

While universities do like big grants because of the prestige it brings to them, one has to be careful in thinking that it actually benefits them financially in a direct manner. Put another way, there are limits to how much a junior faculty member can act like a prima donna, irrespective of how much grant IDC they bring in.

Learn to get along with your colleagues, or at least not be a mutual annoyance on a daily basis, or leave for greener pastures. Just because the other person is being unreasonable, doesn't mean that you're being reasonable.

What you said is not fully correct. There are grants that buy out academic year time for faculty--I have such grants and I happen to know. The salary savings for the university are massive. So considering that already my IDC is higher than my original salary plus the university saves a big chunk of my salary (plus benefits)--essentially the university pays right now for me as much as it would for a low-end staff position, I believe I generate a lot of revenue for the university and I have every right to complain when things that hurt my research happen. If my university does not like my complaints, that's ok--I will take my money and get going. 

Having interviews in the next few weeks. I can only imagine the smiles in the faces of the department chairs and deans once I tell them about the salary savings they will have if they hire me.

Not going to argue any further, since I have done the math and I know exactly what my cost to the university is and how much revenue I generate. I better spend my time writing a grant or a paper. Cheers.

[arcturus]

I will say the following, if you're in a field where you require lab space, then chances are that your IDC do not actually cover the full cost of the research infrastructure for your research, so from a purely financial perspective, you're a net loss to the operating budget of the university. It's a different matter if you're a theorist with a huge grant, since no additional space is being assigned to you.

While universities do like big grants because of the prestige it brings to them, one has to be careful in thinking that it actually benefits them financially in a direct manner. Put another way, there are limits to how much a junior faculty member can act like a prima donna, irrespective of how much grant IDC they bring in.

Learn to get along with your colleagues, or at least not be a mutual annoyance on a daily basis, or leave for greener pastures. Just because the other person is being unreasonable, doesn't mean that you're being reasonable.

What you said is not fully correct. There are grants that buy out academic year time for faculty--I have such grants and I happen to know. The salary savings for the university are massive. So considering that already my IDC is higher than my original salary plus the university saves a big chunk of my salary (plus benefits)--essentially the university pays right now for me as much as it would for a low-end staff position, I believe I generate a lot of revenue for the university and I have every right to complain when things that hurt my research happen. If my university does not like my complaints, that's ok--I will take my money and get going. 

Having interviews in the next few weeks. I can only imagine the smiles in the faces of the department chairs and deans once I tell them about the salary savings they will have if they hire me.

Not going to argue any further, since I have done the math and I know exactly what my cost to the university is and how much revenue I generate. I better spend my time writing a grant or a paper. Cheers.

Please make certain that you tell the department chairs and deans using exactly these same words. It will save everyone a lot of time. No one wants to hire a prima donna who does not understand how the system works.

[mleok]

I will say the following, if you're in a field where you require lab space, then chances are that your IDC do not actually cover the full cost of the research infrastructure for your research, so from a purely financial perspective, you're a net loss to the operating budget of the university. It's a different matter if you're a theorist with a huge grant, since no additional space is being assigned to you.

While universities do like big grants because of the prestige it brings to them, one has to be careful in thinking that it actually benefits them financially in a direct manner. Put another way, there are limits to how much a junior faculty member can act like a prima donna, irrespective of how much grant IDC they bring in.

Learn to get along with your colleagues, or at least not be a mutual annoyance on a daily basis, or leave for greener pastures. Just because the other person is being unreasonable, doesn't mean that you're being reasonable.

What you said is not fully correct. There are grants that buy out academic year time for faculty--I have such grants and I happen to know. The salary savings for the university are massive. So considering that already my IDC is higher than my original salary plus the university saves a big chunk of my salary (plus benefits)--essentially the university pays right now for me as much as it would for a low-end staff position, I believe I generate a lot of revenue for the university and I have every right to complain when things that hurt my research happen. If my university does not like my complaints, that's ok--I will take my money and get going. 

Having interviews in the next few weeks. I can only imagine the smiles in the faces of the department chairs and deans once I tell them about the salary savings they will have if they hire me.

Not going to argue any further, since I have done the math and I know exactly what my cost to the university is and how much revenue I generate. I better spend my time writing a grant or a paper. Cheers.

At the risk of being blunt, I think you've spent too much time being the big fish in a small pond. You have a research group with 3 PhD students and 3 MS students, in an engineering field. That is small research operation (some might say tiny) in the grand scheme of things at the kind of institutions you're targeting.

While a dean might care about the academic year support that you currently have, I don't think it's necessarily going to be as appealing to a department chair or your department colleagues if you're going to buy out of teaching. Where it matters to a department is if hiring you only "costs" them a fraction of a FTE, if for example you have a fractional appointment in a research center or another department, since that is something they can bank to hire someone else.

Temporary academic year support from a grant isn't going to sway anyone's opinion, unless the grant itself is very prestigious (like a PECASE). Nearly every junior faculty member at an excellent engineering department will receive a NSF CAREER award, or one of the DoD related (ARL/AFOSR/ONR) Young Investigator Awards, so that alone isn't going to make people bend over backwards to hire you.

Good luck on your job search, but you'll find that even at the better institutions where you're targeting, people care about whether you're a reasonable person to get along with. You can bring in big grants, but if it only funds your own research, then it's not going to supercede considerations like whether you'll be a good colleague and a good collaborator.