How Do You Deal with Family Members who Subscribe to Conspiracy Theories?

[Dismal]

We used to interact regularly with local relatives who would start talking about things we differed on like Muslims, Hillary's emails (!!) and causes of autism. Then Covid made clear that there were even more differences in our views and now we  make very few plans to get together.

[mahagonny]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

[Sun_Worshiper]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

As soon as I read the bolded I knew this dinner did not unfold the way that Mahagonny claims.

But, in all seriousness, saying the SC is likely to do 'x,' or that Trump yells, or that America is racist are not conspiracy theories. Those things may turn out to be untrue or may be based on weak data/information, but they do not fit the criteria of a conspiracy theory.

[marshwiggle]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

As soon as I read the bolded I knew this dinner did not unfold the way that Mahagonny claims.

I disagree with Mahagonny on many things, but I doubt very much that he yells in person. The point he makes, with which I concur, is that there are all kinds of statements that would have been unremarkable until, in John McWhorter's words, "about 5 minutes ago", which are now treated as either seditious or blasphemous (or both). Wrongthink enrages people by its very existence, regardless of how quietly it is expressed.

[Sun_Worshiper]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

As soon as I read the bolded I knew this dinner did not unfold the way that Mahagonny claims.

I disagree with Mahagonny on many things, but I doubt very much that he yells in person. The point he makes, with which I concur, is that there are all kinds of statements that would have been unremarkable until, in John McWhorter's words, "about 5 minutes ago", which are now treated as either seditious or blasphemous (or both). Wrongthink enrages people by its very existence, regardless of how quietly it is expressed.

It was a joke dude, I'm sure Mahagonny (like many of us) does not behave in person the way he does in the Internet.

But the wider point applies to your post too: These people you disagree with about wokeness may be wrong, but they mostly don't fit the criteria of conspiracy theorists.

[marshwiggle]

But the wider point applies to your post too: These people you disagree with about wokeness may be wrong, but they mostly don't fit the criteria of conspiracy theorists.

Fair enough; it's probably more like religious zealotry, (which would apply to anyone with any very strong ideology). Unshakeable ideas about how the universe works don't require any "conspiracies" explicitly.

[mahagonny]

But the wider point applies to your post too: These people you disagree with about wokeness may be wrong, but they mostly don't fit the criteria of conspiracy theorists.

Fair enough; it's probably more like religious zealotry, (which would apply to anyone with any very strong ideology). Unshakeable ideas about how the universe works don't require any "conspiracies" explicitly.

The people in my non-teaching field are IMHO, (especially recently) particularly not worth discussing current events with. They parrot the views, 'facts' they hear. We are freelancers, usually with minimal secure long-term employment. Their social life is the groupthink of people who seem to be calculating on a daily basis how to avoid saying anything unpopular. It's not, mostly, people who have conspiracy theories. It's more like an ideal breeding ground for all the most lazy, uninformed people to get together and collect nine or ten common progressive themes from CNN to agree on for social bonding.

sun-worshiper: Oh, I get it. Your reaction is "the loony right is doing it worse!" You win.

But an ignorant lefty today can be stunningly ignorant. And there are swarms of them, enough to blot out the sun. 'Wokusts.'

ETA: Observe: no 'all-capitals'. I am speaking softly, still. I like doing it. It drives certain people crazy, especially with the proper vocal inflection. And makes you a smaller target. Except, maybe, here.

[Sun_Worshiper]

But the wider point applies to your post too: These people you disagree with about wokeness may be wrong, but they mostly don't fit the criteria of conspiracy theorists.

Fair enough; it's probably more like religious zealotry, (which would apply to anyone with any very strong ideology). Unshakeable ideas about how the universe works don't require any "conspiracies" explicitly.

The people in my non-teaching field are IMHO, (especially recently) particularly not worth discussing current events with. They parrot the views, 'facts' they hear. We are freelancers, usually with minimal secure long-term employment. Their social life is the groupthink of people who seem to be calculating on a daily basis how to avoid saying anything unpopular. It's not, mostly, people who have conspiracy theories. It's more like an ideal breeding ground for all the most lazy, uninformed people to get together and collect nine or ten common progressive themes from CNN to agree on for social bonding.

sun-worshiper: Oh, I get it. Your reaction is "the loony right is doing it worse!" You win.


But an ignorant lefty today can be stunningly ignorant. And there are swarms of them, enough to blot out the sun. 'Wokusts.'

ETA: Observe: no 'all-capitals'. I am speaking softly, still. I like doing it. It drives certain people crazy, especially with the proper vocal inflection. And makes you a smaller target. Except, maybe, here.

The bolded is not what I said at all. It is not even remotely related to what I said.

[mamselle]

You ignore them.

All of them.

M.

[mahagonny]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

As soon as I read the bolded I knew this dinner did not unfold the way that Mahagonny claims.

But, in all seriousness, saying the SC is likely to do 'x,' or that Trump yells, or that America is racist are not conspiracy theories. Those things may turn out to be untrue or may be based on weak data/information, but they do not fit the criteria of a conspiracy theory.

Right; they are assertions that should require supporting evidence. If I had asked for supporting evidence the result would simply have been like stepping into a hornet's nest. So I didn't. They would not have had evidence, and they would have been indignant that I had asked. However, that's not entirely the fault of these common, non-PhD, afternoon wine and vodka guzzling folks. It's partly the fault of the academic radical leftist world of today and what passes for a legitimate academic. The most conspicuous example being Ibram X. Kendi, who claims that America is reeking with racism in just about all of our interactions, bureaucracies, laws, customs etc. as proven by the fact that most white people have more money, more lucrative careers and more influential positions in some fields (though fewer in some others, which he conveniently forgets) than do most black people. Which is, of course, a ridiculous attempt at providing compelling evidence for a claim of that size, as been noted by folks such as Glen Loury, (who is ignored) not to mention any passable economist and many students of any passable economist.
Although they had never heard of Kendi, it's likely that his visibility and ideas have influenced their thinking. Another thing that I find startling.
I'm pretty sure my recent posts here are in keeping with the thread theme. It's not just liberals like most of you here who have to contend with ignorant, belligerent talkers (and mobs) in your social life.

You ignore them.

All of them.

M.

OK. Let's have the names, since you are so eminently trusted.

[Sun_Worshiper]

On a perhaps related note, I just spent a weekend with six guests (three couples) and my wife, all of whom spent hours in discussion, seething with hate for republicans, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Green, et al. I barely said a word until the discussion turned to Roe v. Wade. Someone said 'the Supreme Court is getting ready to make contraceptive devices and medication illegal.' I said 'they're not going to do that. Condoms and diaphragms and the pill are not going to be made illegal.' One of the party countered 'they're already giving retail workers in pharmacies in some states the right to refuse to sell birth control products if it violates their religion. If there's no one else in the store available, that person cannot purchase!!' To which I responded calmly 'so the customer would have to find another pharmacy to get what they need. I doubt there is a serious shortage of people who are happy to sell condoms, even in those areas.' No response. (Which is fine, I don't need to win an argument. I don't need them to say 'uncle.' I'm happy if someone thinks about what I said without responding.)
(Unsaid: you couldn't walk into a Jewish owned delicatessen and demand non-kosher meat products, could you?)

things they believe:

America is hopelessly, irredeemably racist.
Racism is the reason America was founded.
America's economy was built on slavery.
Republicans are not semi-fascist, as our POTUS says. They are fascist. He was being polite.
More, but I went to bed early and tried to forget.

Almost none of these people had ever heard of Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Raphael Warnock, Glenn Loury, Candace Owens, Ibram X. Kendi, Larry Elder, Robin D'Angelo, gender non-binary status.

ETA: When the discussion wasn't politics, everything was fine. A lot of harmony and affection in the room. During the ranting session, usually one, two or three were talking or yelling at once. I don't know if they even noticed I was silent, which was fine. The only solution. One time I did blow it though: I found out it was unacceptable to report that I had never voted for DJT. It was only acceptable to have voted against him, twice.

Oh here's another gem. One of them stated (with everyone nodding their heads): Donald Trump just yells when he gives a speech. Yelling is his normal speaking tone.

As soon as I read the bolded I knew this dinner did not unfold the way that Mahagonny claims.

But, in all seriousness, saying the SC is likely to do 'x,' or that Trump yells, or that America is racist are not conspiracy theories. Those things may turn out to be untrue or may be based on weak data/information, but they do not fit the criteria of a conspiracy theory.

Right; they are assertions that should require supporting evidence. If I had asked for supporting evidence the result would simply have been like stepping into a hornet's nest. So I didn't. They would not have had evidence, and they would have been indignant that I had asked. However, that's not entirely the fault of these common, non-PhD, afternoon wine and vodka guzzling folks. It's partly the fault of the academic radical leftist world of today and what passes for a legitimate academic. The most conspicuous example being Ibram X. Kendi, who claims that America is reeking with racism in just about all of our interactions, bureaucracies, laws, customs etc. as proven by the fact that most white people have more money, more lucrative careers and more influential positions in some fields (though fewer in some others, which he conveniently forgets) than do most black people. Which is, of course, a ridiculous attempt at providing compelling evidence for a claim of that size, as been noted by folks such as Glen Loury, (who is ignored) not to mention any passable economist and many students of any passable economist.
Although they had never heard of Kendi, it's likely that his visibility and ideas have influenced their thinking. Another thing that I find startling.
I'm pretty sure my recent posts here are in keeping with the thread theme. It's not just liberals like most of you here who have to contend with ignorant, belligerent talkers (and mobs) in your social life.

You ignore them.

All of them.

M.

OK. Let's have the names, since you are so eminently trusted.

Mahagonny, it would be pointless to respond to your crazy and incoherent rant, except to say, once again, that this thread is about conspiracy theories, and what you are describing is something different.

Instead of derailing every thread with an irrelevant rant, why don't you create a Mahagonny grievance megathread? That will be your safe space to complain about all the things that are bothering you without derailing all other threads.

[mamselle]

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

M.

[mahagonny]

Instead of derailing every thread with an irrelevant rant, why don't you create a Mahagonny grievance megathread? That will be your safe space to complain about all the things that are bothering you without derailing all other threads.

I'm pretty sure I'm happier with the wider world than wokedemia is.

No one was using this long-dead thread anyway. You took the option of jumping in. Howdy!