How Do You Deal with Family Members who Subscribe to Conspiracy Theories?

[mamselle]

Observation: to extricate oneself from a snowbank, short, concise rocking movements are more efficacious than spinning one's wheels.

DNFTT.

M.

[mahagonny]

This is what Floyd probably died from. We might hear more about it when the other four officers are tried.
https://www.healthline.com/health/substance-use/booty-bump#risks

Facts:

Floyd told one of the officers, before Chauvin arrived, that he had recently been hooping. He also had advanced heart disease and was something like 48 years old. A little old for that kind of recreation. He was foaming at the mouth, and dropped something on the pavement while sitting.

He complained about not being able to breathe, and also of being afraid he was dying, before Derek Chauvin arrived, and even before lying on the pavement.

Store employees or others in the Cup Foods place described him as acting strange.

The trial took place in a circus atmosphere.

There was no mark on Floyd's neck from the alleged trauma. Only Chauvin knows how much pressure he applied and he didn't testify.

Maxine Waters called for more rioting if the verdict was not guilty.

Jurors are not infallible and neither is the criminal trial process.

[Wahoo Redux]

The medical examiner ruled that chest and neck compression killed Floyd. 

[mahagonny]

The medical examiner ruled that chest and neck compression killed Floyd.

I know a pediatrician, a big name, who told me and other friends that he spun his testimony in to mislead the jury in such a way to convict the defendant because he didn't like her. It was a high profile case. sometimes people talk too much when they drink and hang out with you for a whole weekend. I've seen one doctor who was hired by an insurance company lie in court to thwart a personal injury victim's claim. I consider high level credentials to indicate one has a lot of knowledge in their field, but not a clear guarantee of personal integrity or reliable truth telling.
We don't have to agree. I simply gave my reasons for believing what I believe as of this date so it would not be mistaken for a blind rant. I think the trial of the other three may be interesting.
ETA: the 'facts' are not yet things stated under oath but taken together they form a picture. From multiple sources.

[Wahoo Redux]

That is not germane to the Floyd trial at all.

[smallcleanrat]

Haven't spent the holidays with my folks in years.

Was seriously considering it this year, but this thread's brought up memories that are making me rethink those plans.

I've been struggling with significant health setbacks over the last couple of months, and I just don't feel like I have the energy to "play nice" if my folks decide to rant or tantrum.

They always give lip service to basic rules of civility, but violations are frequent and somehow almost never their fault. If I only had a nickel for every time I've heard, "Well, maybe I shouldn't have said/done that, but it never would have happened if you hadn't pissed me off."



I'm also generally questioning whether "playing nice" is always the most appropriate response. Expressing anger or contempt may not change the other person's opinions. Indeed it may further feed into their victim complex or their sense of superiority. Still it may also cause them to reconsider whether a particular rant in particular company is going to be worth the trouble.

I don't think it's always about spoiling for a fight. I think sometimes it's about wanting to be heard, but not challenged. Because a family gathering is meant to be pleasant and sociable, people may be especially unwillingness to engage with or to shut down a rant. People will also feel pressured to stay even if they would rather walk out.

For the ranter, it is a form of ensuring a captive audience.

So I wonder if there are times when it really is best to deny them this, like when a rant involves calls for violence. Especially if there are people present for whom such comments are personal. I will prioritize sticking up for someone (especially if they are younger) over keeping quiet to avoid rocking the boat.



Brain is too tired to turn this into a specific question, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the way people often speak dismissively of a rant-prone family member by saying things like:

"Oh, don't mind Grandpa. He just grew up in a different time." or "Well, you can't really blame Aunt Helen for the things she says. It's just the way she was raised."

[mamselle]

To your last question: They're enablers.

M.

[little bongo]

Growing up in a different time does mean something, though, speaking as someone with one toe in the old pool. I keep thinking of a short film I like to show the Honors students from 1945--"The House I Live In," featuring Frank Sinatra. (It's on YouTube--worth a look as a piece of history.)

Frank takes a smoke break from a recording session to encounter a group of boys chasing a Jewish boy, ready to beat him up. Through some simple straight talk and singing the title song, Frank gets the kids to reconsider beating up the Jewish kid--the film was meant to combat anti-Semitism (and earned a special Academy Award for its humanitarian efforts).

Nevertheless, some of what was considered just plain straight talk in 1945 includes ideas we would now find problematic. But it was the end of World War II, and we were very much thinking in terms of fighting and defeating the enemy--Nazis and "Japs."

Doesn't mean you have to "make nice" with the family if it's not healthy for you, and nobody should try to make that your responsibility. But there's a great deal of morality, culture, and a sense of good and bad that is era-specific.

[Morden]

Hi SCR, You said:

I've been struggling with significant health setbacks over the last couple of months, and I just don't feel like I have the energy to "play nice" if my folks decide to rant or tantrum.

Holidays are a really stressful time (in the best of times, and these certainly aren't the best of times for a lot of reasons). I think you should protect yourself and your well-being even if that means curtailing access to your family. Do what you need to do to have a restorative holiday break. Prioritize yourself.

[mamselle]

Yes, agreed.

I spent 1 or 2 holiday seasons with family in the past 25 years (when there was a family center to gather in) for just that reason.

Thankfully, now, that house has been sold and the question of meeting there is mooted; the rest are much further away.

The 1-hour Zoom call in which we discussed travel, the weather, pets, and so on, was just about the right amount of time.

And I didn't even have to get my feet wet.

M.

[Wahoo Redux]

Growing up in a different time does mean something, though

My parents and I used to have epic, angry debates about all sorts of things, some idiotic in retrospect (how long someone's hair should be; earrings in guy's ears; watching Lavern & Shirley) and some struck at more substantial cultural mores (should African-American men dress to the "standards" of white middle class people).

My folks came of age in the late 1940s in very conservative parts of the country, and their cultural lens was narrowly focused.  They were confused, angry, and resistant to all the changes wrought by "hippie" and "peacenik" turmoil of the '60s and '70s. They did not understand teen culture at all; if you think about it, they grew up just before America developed its "rebel without a cause" teen angst; my folks were expected to live up to adult standards when they were young.  My father once, by way of an apology, said, "I thought there were rules.  That's the way I was brought up."

To their credit, they were big enough to rethink some of their bigotries, specifically their homophobia when they actually met and interacted with gay people----thus the power of "coming out"-----and after some truly humungous debates on this very subject with me.  And they eventually accepted Rock'n'Roll and stopped thinking of TV as evil.

I have often wondered what future generations will find abhorrent in our zeitgeist.   Abortion, pro or con? Gun laws? Guns?  Our sexual ethics?  Trump or not Trump?  In fact, the emergence of Trump after my "party hardy" generation is still a strain and a shock to me. 

[smallcleanrat]

Growing up in a different time does mean something, though, speaking as someone with one toe in the old pool. I keep thinking of a short film I like to show the Honors students from 1945--"The House I Live In," featuring Frank Sinatra. (It's on YouTube--worth a look as a piece of history.)

Frank takes a smoke break from a recording session to encounter a group of boys chasing a Jewish boy, ready to beat him up. Through some simple straight talk and singing the title song, Frank gets the kids to reconsider beating up the Jewish kid--the film was meant to combat anti-Semitism (and earned a special Academy Award for its humanitarian efforts).

Nevertheless, some of what was considered just plain straight talk in 1945 includes ideas we would now find problematic. But it was the end of World War II, and we were very much thinking in terms of fighting and defeating the enemy--Nazis and "Japs."

Doesn't mean you have to "make nice" with the family if it's not healthy for you, and nobody should try to make that your responsibility. But there's a great deal of morality, culture, and a sense of good and bad that is era-specific.

Sure, it can certainly be a valid explanation.

And there may be times I can buy it as an excuse. Like, "He doesn't intend any offense when he uses that word. For a long time, that was just the word everybody used."

But I hear a lot of people try to make the argument that because someone's behavior can be explained that means you can't object to it.

[Myword]

What about friends who hold conspiracy theories? Do you keep them as friends?

Another conspiracy theory is  the media is evil or incahoots with the government to hide the truth. 
It is either ridiculous or a very hasty generalization, at best. They are supposedly hiding the truth about Ukraine, for example.

[downer]

Since I'm sympathetic with plenty of conspiracy theories, I don't judge others for their theories. I often find a good conspiracy theory very intriguing.

It's only a problem if they won't stop talking about their theories.

[Anselm]

What about friends who hold conspiracy theories? Do you keep them as friends?

Another conspiracy theory is  the media is evil or incahoots with the government to hide the truth. 
It is either ridiculous or a very hasty generalization, at best. They are supposedly hiding the truth about Ukraine, for example.

Hmmm, sounds like Operation Mockingbird.

I do find it suspicious when they all seem to report the same exact thing in the same manner like recently when they all decided to change the pronunciation of Kiev.  Maybe they are not in cahoots with anyone but this could be due to groupthink and a follow the leader mentality, sort of like the Organization Man.