Students who want you to care about them

[Golazo]

I think that Mythbuster and Downer are on to something. I think we are taking about two kinds of caring.

First there is what we might call "general caring" that happens in and around teaching and probably should be general practice--some of this is basic civility, some of this is flexibility, some of this perhaps style. But we've all either experienced or known professors are are either incapable or unwilling to do any of these. I don't think that doing this is disingenuous even if a professor is not interested

Then there is what we might call "specific caring" that entails some form of deeper engagement. I seem to do this more than the average forumite though it depends on what the students want in a given year. I tend to know my upper divisions students who want me to a bit--I know who is working 25 hours a week on swing shifts, who is taking care of mom at home etc.--and sometimes more. I also check in with students from time to time if I know a student is concerned about keeping up with things because of how much they are working or are going through a difficulty period. I can see why many professors don't want to do this, but not only does this seem to make a different to my students, it is really not a lot of effort for me (I would think differently if I taught 50 students sections).

Interestingly, my evals this semester had two students comment that prof Golazo really cares, and because it is a small class I know who wrote them. One student I must have spoken with for several hours over the course of the semester (and a fair amount of this was related to academic advising, but there was clearly bleedover), the other for probably 30 minutes.   

One other thing to keep in mind is that a number of students really don't have adults in their life they can speak with, sometimes about some pretty basic things, if for example the student is estranged from their parent.

[mahagonny]

Be glad they don't want you to "Make <your school> Great Again" or something.

M.

It's much worse than that presently. They want to make our school 'antiracist.'

That should go without saying. If you don't, it will be, or remain, or become racist.

And I doubt you actually want that.

M.

<snort>

The 'antiracists' are a humorless, pessimistic bunch. Nothing they are thinking of doing will make them happy.

But let's let the thread hijack end here, now that I've had the last word.

As for downer, I think he/she is promoting a more traditional master/apprentice relationship, one that doesn't make concessions to the current 'student as consumer' mindset. I think it's bold and stolid, especially coming from a member of the adjuncts-in-the-trenches group. It may even be too uppity for an adjunct. Kudos. I imagine he or she has the PhD, which I don't, but I imagine it gives one confidence.

[Anon1787]

I provided comments on term papers and final exams, but the LMS indicates that only about 10% of students have bothered to look at the feedback. Please tell me again why I should care if they don't. Do I get credit for being a "caring" instructor?

Much of the increased demand for "caring" seems like the warm and fuzzy, therapeutic stuff.

Then there is what we might call "specific caring" that entails some form of deeper engagement...   

One other thing to keep in mind is that a number of students really don't have adults in their life they can speak with, sometimes about some pretty basic things, if for example the student is estranged from their parent.

One need not be a poorly paid adjunct to object to being saddled with that additional responsibility.

[Caracal]

I provided comments on term papers and final exams, but the LMS indicates that only about 10% of students have bothered to look at the feedback. Please tell me again why I should care if they don't. Do I get credit for being a "caring" instructor?

Much of the increased demand for "caring" seems like the warm and fuzzy, therapeutic stuff.

Then there is what we might call "specific caring" that entails some form of deeper engagement...   

One other thing to keep in mind is that a number of students really don't have adults in their life they can speak with, sometimes about some pretty basic things, if for example the student is estranged from their parent.

One need not be a poorly paid adjunct to object to being saddled with that additional responsibility.

There are places and people who can end up getting enough of this that it actually is a burden. You're likely enough to know if you're at one of those places, (usually SLACS) or one of those people.

When I meet with students early in the semester, I usually ask them a little about where they are in school. Nothing invasive,  what classes they have taken and are taking-that sort of thing. Sometimes, students want to tell me more than that. For example, we have a lot of community college transfer, and some of them do want to talk about their anxiety with making the transition. It isn't like this is hard. Former community college students majors at my school majoring in my subject tend to be very good. Mostly I just reassure them that they don't seem out of place at all, and that if they have specific issues as the course goes on we can work on them.

Very occasionally, I get students who are having some issue and clearly want to talk a bit more. I don't get much personal life stuff, maybe because I'm a man, but I sometimes get students who are having anxiety around their schoolwork, or are dealing with learning disabilities. I'm not a therapist or an expert and don't try to be. What I can do is normalize some of these problems. Anxiety about work happens with most of us, writing things is emotionally hard for a lot of us, etc etc.

We're talking about an occasional conversation with a student where you just treat them like a person. It isn't particularly time consuming. Its actually one of the things I like the most about my job.

[downer]

I'm sure that there are gender dynamics at play in how students interact with faculty. I haven't actually noticed students opening up to women faculty more than men.

Probably there is more variation depending on the subject area, and methods of teaching. Some faculty explicitly aim to get students reflecting on their experience in journals and that often invites disclosure from students. I encourage students to discuss their own experience in discussion boards for some topics, and it goes well.

I don't have any office hours with students these days, and that shuts off some possibilities of students coming to me to tell their stories or open up in person.

[fishbrains]

I provided comments on term papers and final exams, but the LMS indicates that only about 10% of students have bothered to look at the feedback. Please tell me again why I should care if they don't. Do I get credit for being a "caring" instructor?

Much of the increased demand for "caring" seems like the warm and fuzzy, therapeutic stuff.

Then there is what we might call "specific caring" that entails some form of deeper engagement...   

One other thing to keep in mind is that a number of students really don't have adults in their life they can speak with, sometimes about some pretty basic things, if for example the student is estranged from their parent.

One need not be a poorly paid adjunct to object to being saddled with that additional responsibility.

There are places and people who can end up getting enough of this that it actually is a burden. You're likely enough to know if you're at one of those places, (usually SLACS) or one of those people.

When I meet with students early in the semester, I usually ask them a little about where they are in school. Nothing invasive,  what classes they have taken and are taking-that sort of thing. Sometimes, students want to tell me more than that. For example, we have a lot of community college transfer, and some of them do want to talk about their anxiety with making the transition. It isn't like this is hard. Former community college students majors at my school majoring in my subject tend to be very good. Mostly I just reassure them that they don't seem out of place at all, and that if they have specific issues as the course goes on we can work on them.

Very occasionally, I get students who are having some issue and clearly want to talk a bit more. I don't get much personal life stuff, maybe because I'm a man, but I sometimes get students who are having anxiety around their schoolwork, or are dealing with learning disabilities. I'm not a therapist or an expert and don't try to be. What I can do is normalize some of these problems. Anxiety about work happens with most of us, writing things is emotionally hard for a lot of us, etc etc.

We're talking about an occasional conversation with a student where you just treat them like a person. It isn't particularly time consuming. Its actually one of the things I like the most about my job.

This tends to be me as well, especially trying to "normalize some of the problems"--letting students know it's not just them and there are services and fun programs the college offers to various groups. I teach freshizzles and sophomores through a 5/5 load, so I generally don't get into the "specific caring" realm, although it has happened a few rare times over the past 20 years because a student had a concern I could actually help them with in some detail.

The idea that I'm supposed to "love" our students is strange. I've actually heard the phrase that we are supposed to "love them to success." I have a professional relationship with them, not a "loving" relationship. I think some folks confuse "love" with "respect" when talking about students.

[spork]

[. . .]

The idea that I'm supposed to "love" our students is strange. I've actually heard the phrase that we are supposed to "love them to success."

[. . .]

I find this very creepy. I'm going to guess it's originating from student life staff.

I'm happy to provide academic advice. But that's it.

Anon1787's post prompted me to look at undergraduate final exams for 2020-21 and 2018-19 (most recent non-pandemic academic year). About 50% of students in each year viewed their exams after I had graded them. This is why I spent more time clicking rubrics in Canvas than marking up exams with comments.

[mamselle]

I'm sure that there are gender dynamics at play in how students interact with faculty. I haven't actually noticed students opening up to women faculty more than men.

If you're not female, you might not have occasion to find out, you know....

This has been a longstanding issue, beginning with the difficulty women have had getting tenure because of both formal and informal service expectations chewing up their time...

   2017: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/04/12/study-finds-female-professors-outperform-men-service-their-possible-professional

   2017: Whole journal is of interest: https://www.jstor.org/stable/e90007861
             This article in particular: https://www.jstor.org/stable/90007882

   2011: https://www.aaup.org/article/ivory-ceiling-service-work#.YKrlI-cpBPY

   2009: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ870462.pdf

More recent articles factor in Covid issues in as well.

M.

[Ruralguy]

I have seen some women greatly succeed at this so the key is whether or not their institution values this extra service. If they don't, then it may not be a waste, but they had better find the time to do those things the school values, or apply elsewhere.

[jerseyjay]

As people have noted, "caring" has various aspects. There are professors who genuinely seem to want to offer pastoral care to their students. I tell my students straight off the back that I am not a therapist and while I would be happy to direct them to somebody appropriate, I am not the best person to consult about most non-academic issues.

However, my students still seem to think that I care about them. And that is because I treat them like human beings. I do not belittle them, I do not act better than them, I try not to be arrogant. I try to act like a human being, and I admit when I make a mistake, and I try to be flexible.

I let my students miss class if they have to take a child to the doctor. I let my students bring in their children if the schools are on holiday. I let my students turn in their papers late if their parents are in the hospital with Covid.  A student who had been in several of my classes disappeared from my class and I failed her (because I don't have much choice if she missed the final exam and the term paper). When she sheepishly came to me the next semester and told me she had had a nervous breakdown because of various issues, I let her make up the work.

None of this is particularly difficult on my part. If a student really cannot pass the class, I suggest they try to drop it. If a student plagiarizes, I will usually fail them for the assignment. It is not that I am "easy" on the students, but that I recognize that they are human. My students seem to recognize that I respect them and they respect me by not trying to abuse me.

If the students have been victim of some bureaucratic SNAFU--which is not rare here--I will try to help them figure out what to do, or at least whom to talk to, instead of just shrugging.

I have colleagues who never deviate from a rule, who think their students are stupid and beneath them, who are not shy in telling their students this, and seem to be counting the days until Harvard calls them (although they usually do not manage to publish anything, either). I do not think the fact that I have a PhD from a fancy university, and some of my students learnt English late and attended poor public schools and thus have trouble reading and writing, makes me better than them. I don't excuse them from the work, but I do recognize that it is difficult. I would say that my classes are probably harder than average in my department (more reading and writing), and I am not afraid to fail students if necessary. But I do not enjoy failing students and I am always willing to work with a student if he or she needs it.

I try to know my students names, remember details about them, and joke around with them. I am not really their friend, but, again, I try to treat them in a respectful and nice way--they same way I try to treat my colleagues, the departmental secretary, the janitor, and the person who sells me coffee. 

[Ruralguy]

It seems weird that this is even a little bit controversial.

[fishbrains]

It seems weird that this is even a little bit controversial.

Yes, but I've attended a national conference and a state-wide conference (virtually) this past year where the idea that we need to "love" our students has been at the center of the discussions promoting"student success"--discussions complete with teary testimonials and all the virtue signaling. This is what my administrators seem to be hearing quite a bit these days, and they bristle when faculty push back with jerseyjay's line of thought that being respectful, responsive, and decent is perfectly sufficient within the scope of our professional capacity.

"Weird" is the correct word.

[downer]

Is this idea of loving students more common at colleges with some religious mission? Small liberal arts colleges? It seems like it would be a bad fit at a large state university.

[Ruralguy]

Our Title IX folks would probably disapprove of the use of "love" in this context.

Seriously though the "love" stuff is a bit much, I think the profession really should just non-controversially follow the standards that Jerseyjay mentions.

[apl68]

Is this idea of loving students more common at colleges with some religious mission? Small liberal arts colleges? It seems like it would be a bad fit at a large state university.

I don't recall any talk of "loving" students at Alma Mater, a religiously-affiliated school, when I attended 30 years ago.  Or my mother speaking in those terms during the many years she taught there after I left.  I do recall knowing multiple faculty members there who could fairly be described as "caring."  They expressed it in different ways.  But they cared about students as people and student outcomes, all in a professional context.