Students who want you to care about them

[mamselle]

This is making me remember my surprise at discovering that several of my professors at the school where I started my MA work knowing about my abusive (now former) spouse, and letting me, in one case, take an incomplete so I could finish up a paper after having to go to a shelter to get away from him.

I didn't realize they knew until years afterwards, one of them that I stayed in touch with let it slip. She mentioned they were concerned for me and were glad to hear I'd left him.

I didn't tell, and they didn't gossip; quite a few people found out when he just appeared at the library one day, where I was at a table with several other students, prepping for an exam, and stood at the end of the table, saying, "C'mon, b----, get home and do the dishes..."

Sort of a caring mycelium that maintained my self-respect but was watching out for me at the same time.

M.

[Caracal]

The people who worry about maintaining professional boundaries are never the ones who should be worrying about it.

[Caracal]

(Double post, sorry)

[downer]

The people who worry about maintaining professional boundaries are never the ones who should be worrying about it.

There's roughly two groups who violate professional boundaries. Obviously there are those who date students in their classes, and those who get their students to do child care for them, mow their lawns, get them to give them rides, buy drugs from them, and so on.

But there's also the more well-meaning ones who really do seem to care about students, but get over-involved in their students' lives. That might be as minimal as friending them on facebook and instagram, but might also involve spending hours talking to them in their offices, and telling the students a lot about their personal lives. It can also involve acting as the students' therapist or social worker. I think the boundaries are much fuzzier for that group.

[Caracal]

The people who worry about maintaining professional boundaries are never the ones who should be worrying about it.

There's roughly two groups who violate professional boundaries. Obviously there are those who date students in their classes, and those who get their students to do child care for them, mow their lawns, get them to give them rides, buy drugs from them, and so on.

But there's also the more well-meaning ones who really do seem to care about students, but get over-involved in their students' lives. That might be as minimal as friending them on facebook and instagram, but might also involve spending hours talking to them in their offices, and telling the students a lot about their personal lives. It can also involve acting as the students' therapist or social worker. I think the boundaries are much fuzzier for that group.

Yes, but those people don't spend any time worrying about boundaries either. Most of these things are about appropriately managing relationships where there is a power imbalance. Obviously, there are some things we could all agree on that nobody should ever do within a teacher/student relationship.

However, a lot of the things in that list are really not bright lines and are more about just being careful and thoughtful. For example, the difference between an appropriate and inappropriate amount of information isn't just about the topic, but about the circumstances. For example, in some circumstances,  there would be nothing wrong with a professor mentioning they had been divorced and it was a tough experience. However, sharing a bunch of details about a divorce? Not good. Telling a student you're LGBTQ or straight when it's relevant? Sure. Telling them about details of your sex life? Obviously not.  Telling a student you have dealt with anxiety? Fine. Giving a lot of details about your mental health? Too much.

Similarly, I agree you shouldn't try to be a student's therapist or social worker. However, that doesn't mean you need to shoe students out of your office whenever they start talking about an issue that touches on mental health. It's fine to be a supportive, approachable adult figure, as long as you're putting boundaries around that role.

[AvidReader]

Obviously there are those who date students in their classes, and those who get their students to do child care for them, mow their lawns, get them to give them rides, buy drugs from them, and so on.

At my undergrad SLAC (late 90's/early 00's), it was pretty common for the several professors who lived within walking distance of campus to hire past and current students for child/lawn care. I don't really want students at my large regional school knowing my home address, but to me there's a big difference between babysitting and dating.

AR.

[downer]

Obviously there are those who date students in their classes, and those who get their students to do child care for them, mow their lawns, get them to give them rides, buy drugs from them, and so on.

At my undergrad SLAC (late 90's/early 00's), it was pretty common for the several professors who lived within walking distance of campus to hire past and current students for child/lawn care. I don't really want students at my large regional school knowing my home address, but to me there's a big difference between babysitting and dating.

AR.

I think that's a topic for a different thread.

[Ruralguy]

Lawn care is pretty tame, I might employ a student though I wouldn't employ a student *of mine.* Honestly, we have adults doing all of that stuff.

[Caracal]

Obviously there are those who date students in their classes, and those who get their students to do child care for them, mow their lawns, get them to give them rides, buy drugs from them, and so on.

At my undergrad SLAC (late 90's/early 00's), it was pretty common for the several professors who lived within walking distance of campus to hire past and current students for child/lawn care. I don't really want students at my large regional school knowing my home address, but to me there's a big difference between babysitting and dating.

AR.

I think that's a topic for a different thread.

Well, same sort of basic thing. Should be fine as long as you are careful. The professors I know who have done this have never just asked a student in their class if they babysit. It was a student who mentioned that they had babysat before and would be interested if professor ever needed it. Alternatively, they got recs from other professors. Then they went out of their way to make sure to pay the student well.

[Golazo]

It's fine to be a supportive, approachable adult figure, as long as you're putting boundaries around that role.

This from Caracal pretty much describes what I am aiming for. 

[fishbrains]

Is this idea of loving students more common at colleges with some religious mission? Small liberal arts colleges? It seems like it would be a bad fit at a large state university.

I don't recall any talk of "loving" students at Alma Mater, a religiously-affiliated school, when I attended 30 years ago.  Or my mother speaking in those terms during the many years she taught there after I left.  I do recall knowing multiple faculty members there who could fairly be described as "caring."  They expressed it in different ways.  But they cared about students as people and student outcomes, all in a professional context.

Imagine an administrator being "inspired" by something like this without having any real desire to spend the money on it: https://diverseeducation.com/article/196070/

[smallcleanrat]

Some examples (not inappropriately crossing personal boundaries, I would say) I've personally encountered in which an instructor's actions were characterized as "caring":

1. Being responsive to students' course-related concerns or confusions. Could be anything really:

--"Professor, it's really hard to hear you over the fan." --> Prof makes sure to shut off fan at beginning of every lecture

--Majority of the class is unable to answer a part of recent exam correctly --> Prof adjusts lecture plans to include some time reviewing the relevant concept

--Prof includes helpful supplemental material on the course website

--Prof isn't sure of the answer to a student's question during lecture --> Prof looks into it later and addresses the question again at the next lecture

--Prof notes students seem especially fired up about a particular topic --> prof emails class with additional resources about that topic in response to that interest

2. Being aware of which concepts are tricky for beginners and teaching accordingly.

--Prof makes a preliminary comment to defuse some anxiety: "I know this looks complicated, but it's really not that bad. Let's break it down..."
(I remember being very grateful for statements like this as an undergrad with a tendency to interpret confusion as a sign of my own stupidity; some indication that "oh, this concept is always a bit of a speedbump for people studying this subject" was much appreciated)

--Prof takes frequent pauses to scan the room for raised hands/questions before moving on to the next point


Thought of another scenario; would be curious to hear opinions. My undergrad academic advisor never once showed up to an appointment with me. Undergrads were supposed to be able to meet with their advisor once per term to discuss course selection, grad school/med school plans, career interests, etc... My classmates were getting this from their advisors.

I would email the prof to ask for an appointment, he would respond with something like "Sure, stop by my office Tuesday at 10am." Tuesday morning I'd wait outside his empty office for ages. Sometimes I was able to pop into his nearby lab and ask one of his grad students if they knew when he'd be back. Usually the answer was a shrug. More than once the answer was, "He's at a conference out of town. He won't be back until the end of the week."

To get registration forms signed, I would have to tape the form to his door and then check every day to see if he had signed it and stuck it back on the door.

I do remember telling some people that I wish my advisor cared more about advising, but no one ever reacted as if my advisor's behavior was odd or lacking in anyway. One prof told me "yeah...a lot of profs really don't like advising duties; it can be a real time drain."

Still seems rude to agree to an appointment and then not show up. Why not just say you're too busy to meet?

[Ruralguy]

I am at a teaching centric college that promotes itself as "high touch."

Unfortunately, we have many advisers who do things like never show up for appointments.
The responses to their behavior are ludicrous. Administrators say "I have invited them to participate in re-training." Their friends say "look, maybe they are just bad at it." I agree that they *are* poor, but its not due to lacking skills. Its about not caring that they agreed to do this and then not putting in simple efforts (such as reading the course catalog and online course statistics in the registration software). I often have at least one 1st year student who wants to stay with me as an advisee because "you seem to care and know your stuff. You helped me come up with a plan and contingencies. No advisers in my major do that." Its probably not 100% true, but I do know who they could be talking about.  I mean, sheesh, people act like it requires 4th year calculus and Advanced Logic to get through advising a student. Some basic caring and efficient tasking can get it done well.

I think in all of my time here, I once showed up late for a student appointment, in my first or second year, and then never did that again.

[jerseyjay]

I used to do advising on Mondays and Wednesdays from 7am to 8am. (This was when I usually had a regular class at 8am.) In part this was because it was unlikely that many students would want to be advised at that time, but partly because there were always some students who DID want to be advised them (usually those who worked). And I made sure to always show up for my office hours then.

Now I tend to have advising in the afternoon or late morning. And sometimes I get held up because of traffic or something, but I always make sure to call the departmental secretary so anybody I am supposed to meet knows that I am late.

Unlike some people I know, I do not make my advising sessions hour-long therapy sessions. But I do try to address any questions students have, and give them personalized, accurate information, and try to give them something written they can take home. Many of our majors are co-majoring in something else, and I regularly hear how nice our department is because we tend to give uniform answers; I have been told that it is not uncommon to get wrong advice from the other department, sometimes meaning that students have to scramble in their last semesters. (And if for some reason I do give a student wrong advice, I will email or call the student to clarify.)

Again, I think this all is mainly a question of trying to treat students like human beings.

[Hegemony]

Thought of another scenario; would be curious to hear opinions. My undergrad academic advisor never once showed up to an appointment with me. Undergrads were supposed to be able to meet with their advisor once per term to discuss course selection, grad school/med school plans, career interests, etc... My classmates were getting this from their advisors.

I would email the prof to ask for an appointment, he would respond with something like "Sure, stop by my office Tuesday at 10am." Tuesday morning I'd wait outside his empty office for ages. Sometimes I was able to pop into his nearby lab and ask one of his grad students if they knew when he'd be back. Usually the answer was a shrug. More than once the answer was, "He's at a conference out of town. He won't be back until the end of the week."

To get registration forms signed, I would have to tape the form to his door and then check every day to see if he had signed it and stuck it back on the door.

I do remember telling some people that I wish my advisor cared more about advising, but no one ever reacted as if my advisor's behavior was odd or lacking in anyway. One prof told me "yeah...a lot of profs really don't like advising duties; it can be a real time drain."

Still seems rude to agree to an appointment and then not show up. Why not just say you're too busy to meet?

That is appalling behavior. At my place, the prof would get a stern talking-to and be reassigned from advising duties to something onerous he couldn't get out of. I know that in former days, profs' behavior was sometimes lax, but really that is egregious and beyond the beyond. No student should have to put up with that.