Homeless Camp In Affluent Neighborhood

[Wahoo Redux]

What people want in situations like this is for the homeless to just go away.  Or de-materialize, or cease to exist.  None of these is really feasible.  Except for the "cease to exist" option--it's called "dying."  But that's really not what we, as a society, want, right?

With all due respect apl, this is what I am talking about.

That's not fair.  I have never meant anyone who simply wants to bury the unfortunate in a field or something.  But I, and you, and dismalist, have a right to walk the streets and not be harassed or threatened or have our property damaged or befouled or stolen etc.  And yes, this has been my own experience with the "homeless."  And I am not alone, even as I have a great deal of empathy and there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I comprehension (I'm in recovery).

Very good, idealistic people get frustrated, I think, by the reality of our situation. 

We need a solution that is fair to everyone.

So, what do we do in the meantime? Rush the process? Put cyanide in their soup?

For pete's sake.

[Hegemony]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Mamselle.

It turned out that one of my students last year was homeless. She was having a lot of trouble getting the internet. The usual place they get is is McDonald's — the parking lot, during a pandemic.

As for tiny homes creating more homeless, I can't see why anyone who had a choice would give up an apartment with all modern conveniences to live in a parking lot in a very tiny place with no plumbing (one communal building has toilets), surrounded by neighbors who may be mentally ill, on drugs, anti-social, or all of the above, and where one may, in Wahoo's words, be "harassed or threatened or have our property damaged or befouled or stolen etc." Doesn't sound like the idyllic life that will draw in people eager to experience the fun.

As for why they don't build apartments — I think the answer here is expense and expediency. It's cheaper to have these little pre-fab homes that can be moved. Where they will set up permanently is still in contention — the place they'll start is temporary. There's a lot online about options and possibilities — not in my town specifically, but across the country — if anyone wants to delve further into the matter.

[Wahoo Redux]

The "homeless" include families, orphaned children, and quite possibly, some of your own students:

   https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-investigates-homeless-students-in-massachusetts-crisis/36521780

And, for all I know, at any one given point in time, if he's gone off his meds or decided the current shelter he's living in is trying to poison him or do thought experiments on him, one of them could be my brother.

We think he's in Kansas City right now.

M.

My sister just died after going homeless.  Meth.

It is not that I lack a personal stake in the issue.  I have posted this and later, after my wife has gone to bed, I will cry because I posted this.  Even mentioning it just kills me and I want to die.

This is part of the reason I posted this.  I am very, very aware of this world we are discussing and the REALISTIC problems it entails.

[Wahoo Redux]

I made a mistake in posting this.

We have reached a point in our culture in which we cannot discuss certain topics.

[dismalist]

As for tiny homes creating more homeless, I can't see why anyone who had a choice would give up an apartment with all modern conveniences... .

The mod cons cost more?

[mamselle]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Mamselle.

Thanks.

And Wahoo, I am sorry to hear of the loss of your sister.

We do need this discussion, and we need to have it with compassion.

It was not wrong to post it.

M.

[ciao_yall]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Mamselle.

Thanks.

And Wahoo, I am sorry to hear of the loss of your sister.

We do need this discussion, and we need to have it with compassion.

It was not wrong to post it.

M.

The homeless are often struggling with drug addiction and mental illness. Many have loving families who are frustrated at their inability to help them. My husband's brother may be one of them - we don't know. He won't talk to us or many of his friends and has disappeared. Some of his friends filed a police report and they found an address for him 5 states away from where he had been living.

I used to pass this young woman many mornings on the way to the subway. She always looked well fed but cheerfully shooting up. We called her "Cindy Brady."

[Hegemony]

As for tiny homes creating more homeless, I can't see why anyone who had a choice would give up an apartment with all modern conveniences... .

The mod cons cost more?

The implication is that if we create tiny homes for homeless people, people will declare themselves homeless so they can live in them. If people can afford the mod cons, they would certainly stick with the mod cons. If they cannot afford them, then being homeless is not a choice.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss, Wahoo.

[Caracal]

My city is now trying the experiment of providing tiny homes for the homeless. We'll see if it works; I definitely think it's worth a try. Incidentally there is a large, city-approved homeless encampment two blocks from my house. I know that the homeless can sometimes be problematic. If they were not subject to mental illness and attendant problems, many of them probably wouldn't be homeless in the first place. Nevertheless, just to say that we've had no problems on my block, and I'm glad they have a place to be.

I suppose if you could build these places cheaper and house more people it might be a good idea, but I see your point. What's the difference between a tiny home and a small studio apartment?

I don't know enough about social services for the homeless and how they work, but my guess is that there's already a process to triage and find services for people, although I'm sure that process is usually heavily constrained by lack of resources. I can't imagine you would just show up at a shelter and be immediately offered an apartment.

Ideally, you would just have apartments spread throughout cities. I used to walk by an area where a few homeless people hung out during the day. After years of that, I became pretty familiar with a couple of people. When I would go out of town, one guy would ask where I'd been. Most of those guys seemed like nice people. I would have sooner had them as neighbors than quite a few of the gainfully employed jerks I had to deal with.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. That's heartbreaking.

[downer]

The "homeless" include families, orphaned children, and quite possibly, some of your own students:

   https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-investigates-homeless-students-in-massachusetts-crisis/36521780

And, for all I know, at any one given point in time, if he's gone off his meds or decided the current shelter he's living in is trying to poison him or do thought experiments on him, one of them could be my brother.

We think he's in Kansas City right now.

M.

My sister just died after going homeless.  Meth.

It is not that I lack a personal stake in the issue.  I have posted this and later, after my wife has gone to bed, I will cry because I posted this.  Even mentioning it just kills me and I want to die.

This is part of the reason I posted this.  I am very, very aware of this world we are discussing and the REALISTIC problems it entails.

Really sorry to hear about your sister Wahoo Redux.

And about your brother Mamselle.

Discussions on the fora have varying rates of openmindedness and readiness to listen. I'd hope that the personal nature of the topic might make people more willing to engage in helpful ways.

[marshwiggle]

I'm also sorry to hear about sad personal experiences related to homelessness.

One of the reasons I think a UBI is worth considering is for issues like this. Part of the problem with many social programs is that they are targeted too finely. For instance, building apartments for homeless people specifically (aside from the definitional problem that once they are in the apartments, they are no longer "homeless"), is that people of very low income living in sketchy places don't necessarily qualify, so being officially "homeless" is the better option. With a UBI, homeless or not, low income or not, won't matter, and any income a person can generate is beneficial. Also, if housing costs are linked to the UBI, then whether people are technically "homeless" or not they should still be able to afford it.

A second issue which has been raised is that there are a small segment of the homeless who have serious mental health and/or substance abuse problems that will make them unable to live independently without them being a danger to themselves or their neighbours. These people will need to be in some sort of supervised individual setting because the damage they cause will cast aspersions on all homeless people otherwise. The people most eager to help homeless people must be willing and able to deal with the few who do present a risk in order to get community support for helping the non-dangerous majority.

[apl68]

What people want in situations like this is for the homeless to just go away.  Or de-materialize, or cease to exist.  None of these is really feasible.  Except for the "cease to exist" option--it's called "dying."  But that's really not what we, as a society, want, right?

With all due respect apl, this is what I am talking about.

That's not fair.  I have never meant anyone who simply wants to bury the unfortunate in a field or something.  But I, and you, and dismalist, have a right to walk the streets and not be harassed or threatened or have our property damaged or befouled or stolen etc.  And yes, this has been my own experience with the "homeless."  And I am not alone, even as I have a great deal of empathy and there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I comprehension (I'm in recovery).

Very good, idealistic people get frustrated, I think, by the reality of our situation. 

We need a solution that is fair to everyone.

Actually I don't disagree with what you said above about how homelessness is a structural problem that needs far greater resources and planning--better provision for low-income housing, better mental health services, etc.  De-institutionalization of the mentally ill was a humanitarian idea that turned into a catastrophic failure in the execution.  And it's a tragedy that notorious public housing failures like Pruitt-Igoe caused the public to lose faith in public housing altogether.  We have to address the extreme shortages of affordable housing and mental care in so many cities.

Here and now, though, we have thousands of homeless people who need help right away.  Homeless shelters and churches like the one in Denver are trying to meet those needs that can't wait.  They're doing what they have to do.

[ciao_yall]

What people want in situations like this is for the homeless to just go away.  Or de-materialize, or cease to exist.  None of these is really feasible.  Except for the "cease to exist" option--it's called "dying."  But that's really not what we, as a society, want, right?

With all due respect apl, this is what I am talking about.

That's not fair.  I have never meant anyone who simply wants to bury the unfortunate in a field or something.  But I, and you, and dismalist, have a right to walk the streets and not be harassed or threatened or have our property damaged or befouled or stolen etc.  And yes, this has been my own experience with the "homeless."  And I am not alone, even as I have a great deal of empathy and there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I comprehension (I'm in recovery).

Very good, idealistic people get frustrated, I think, by the reality of our situation. 

We need a solution that is fair to everyone.

Actually I don't disagree with what you said above about how homelessness is a structural problem that needs far greater resources and planning--better provision for low-income housing, better mental health services, etc.  De-institutionalization of the mentally ill was a humanitarian idea that turned into a catastrophic failure in the execution.  And it's a tragedy that notorious public housing failures like Pruitt-Igoe caused the public to lose faith in public housing altogether.  We have to address the extreme shortages of affordable housing and mental care in so many cities.

Here and now, though, we have thousands of homeless people who need help right away.  Homeless shelters and churches like the one in Denver are trying to meet those needs that can't wait.  They're doing what they have to do.

Exactly. We can't ask people hide away, going without sleep or food for the next few years until policymakers figure out what to do with them.

For many, a week or two of good nights' sleep, few regular meals, and space for personal hygiene - shower, toothbrush, haircut, bathroom - can go a long way towards getting them resettled, finding a job and getting back on their feet.

[Cheerful]

De-institutionalization of the mentally ill was a humanitarian idea that turned into a catastrophic failure in the execution.

+1

Sorry for the personal pain re: loved ones mentioned in this thread.  Wishing you comfort and peace.

[Harlow2]

I'm so sorry, Wahoo and Mamselle. Appreciate your willingness to mention their—and your—stories.