Are the Humanities Doomed?

[Wahoo Redux]

I think definitions of "mediocre" may vary. In STEM and professional programs, probably only the top 10% (or something like that) of high school kids in certain subjects (such as math for STEM) will get in. I haven't heard any suggestion that, for instance, only the top 10% of English students in high school would be able to get into an English program.

I do not know how you do it in Canada, but in the United States anyone can declare any major they want.

I would believe you, perhaps, except for my own experience. 

[marshwiggle]

I think definitions of "mediocre" may vary. In STEM and professional programs, probably only the top 10% (or something like that) of high school kids in certain subjects (such as math for STEM) will get in. I haven't heard any suggestion that, for instance, only the top 10% of English students in high school would be able to get into an English program.

I do not know how you do it in Canada, but in the United States anyone can declare any major they want.

I would believe you, perhaps, except for my own experience.

Typically in Canada you apply to a specific program when applying to university, and you get accepted (or not) to that program.  That's the only way you get accepted to the university. Once you're there, if you wish to switch programs, you're subject to the rules about that program regarding whether or not you're eligible to switch.

[FishProf]

In the US, there is a hybrid.  Professional programs (nursing, architecture, etc) might function that way, but the majority of majors at the majority of Universities are open, and you apply to the school, not the program.

[Ruralguy]

Some very large schools like Virginia Tech will generally admit you to the school if you don't get admitted to a professional program. i think you can also generally apply from the beginning if you more or less know you won't get accepted to the engineering program or whatever.

[MarathonRunner]

In the US, there is a hybrid.  Professional programs (nursing, architecture, etc) might function that way, but the majority of majors at the majority of Universities are open, and you apply to the school, not the program.

Not how it works in Canada. With the exception of a few programs that offer first-year flexibility to strong students, you are accepted to a specific program and major. Switching between majors, even in the same faculty, often requires application for an internal transfer. Students can't just switch from, say, sociology to political science, or from mechanical engineering to chemical engineering, at most universities. Even declaring a minor often requires an acceptance from the program that offers that minor. I switched majors after first year, and I had to apply to the new major with my high school and university transcripts, and letters of recommendation. I couldn't just switch and declare a new major.

[marshwiggle]

In the US, there is a hybrid.  Professional programs (nursing, architecture, etc) might function that way, but the majority of majors at the majority of Universities are open, and you apply to the school, not the program.

Not how it works in Canada. With the exception of a few programs that offer first-year flexibility to strong students, you are accepted to a specific program and major. Switching between majors, even in the same faculty, often requires application for an internal transfer. Students can't just switch from, say, sociology to political science, or from mechanical engineering to chemical engineering, at most universities. Even declaring a minor often requires an acceptance from the program that offers that minor. I switched majors after first year, and I had to apply to the new major with my high school and university transcripts, and letters of recommendation. I couldn't just switch and declare a new major.

The difference in prerequisites for different programs mean that even if there were open spaces in all programs, only a few students would have the *prerequisites for certain ones (like engineering or physics, which require lots of high school math), and it would be ridiculous to require all incoming students to have those courses if they're going into programs that don't specifically require any of them.


*And that's without even considering that different programs requiring the same prerequisite course may not have the same grade cutoff; chemistry may require high school physics with 70% or more, but electrical engineering may require high school physics above 85%.

[Wahoo Redux]

Letter: Demise of the English major

Such a relief to finally see some colleges and universities come to their senses and begin thinking about dropping the English major from their academic programs.

With a nice tie-in to AI technology.

[kaysixteen]

How hard is it for a Canadian uni student to successfully apply to switch majors once enrolled?

[Parasaurolophus]

How hard is it for a Canadian uni student to successfully apply to switch majors once enrolled?

As I recall it, you don't declare a major until your second(ish) year, and then, there's nothing stopping you from declaring whatever you want. But that's one area of admin/reg stuff that I'm pretty hazy on, to be honest.

I certainly remember filling out the major change form myself, and it was as easy as simply writing "philosophy" in the box.

[FishProf]

Some very large schools like Virginia Tech will generally admit you to the school if you don't get admitted to a professional program. i think you can also generally apply from the beginning if you more or less know you won't get accepted to the engineering program or whatever.

Very true.  We used to do that in our nursing program.  There were program specific admits, and then general admits who could try to get into the program after a year of prereqs.  Of course, we'd admit a hundred, knowing full well there might be 2-3 seats available to apply to (and then transfers would usually get those).  Very unethical, I'm glad we stopped.

[marshwiggle]

How hard is it for a Canadian uni student to successfully apply to switch majors once enrolled?

It depends vastly on the requirements of the two programs. If a student wanted to switch from English to Engineering, if they didn't have the required math courses, they'd be totally out of luck. If they wanted to switch from Engineering to *English, if they had the required grade in English, it might be pretty straightforward.

(*English is typically a requirement for any program, although the required incoming grade may be different.)

Also, some programs, especially professional ones, have very strict enrollment caps, so if they're full, you're not going to be accepted even if you meet the criteria. Some programs, (again, often professional ones), have strict cohort progression, so they don't accept people coming in above first year because all of their students take all of their courses in the same sequence. For those programs, failing a course often means having to leave the program because even if you retake the course, you're out of the required cohort progression sequence.)

[MarathonRunner]

How hard is it for a Canadian uni student to successfully apply to switch majors once enrolled?

As I recall it, you don't declare a major until your second(ish) year, and then, there's nothing stopping you from declaring whatever you want. But that's one area of admin/reg stuff that I'm pretty hazy on, to be honest.

I certainly remember filling out the major change form myself, and it was as easy as simply writing "philosophy" in the box.

Not at all how it worked for me, at my Canadian institution. I was accepted to a given major. After first year, when I wanted to be accepted to a different major, I had to apply for an internal transfer, with high school and first year transcripts, and letters of reference. Other universities and programs may do it differently, but that's how it's done at my UG, masters and PhD universities in Canada.

[pondering]

A relevant think piece:

What if students WANT the humanities in their college curriculum?

It takes a conscious investment from trustees and the administration to create an institution that values the humanities and liberal arts, creates a curriculum that revolves around them and hires tenure-track faculty (instead of adjunctifying) to keep up. So, there has to be an institutional investment. But that investment can pay off—not necessarily in the number of majors, but rather in overall enrollment at the institution.

How do I know this? Because I have seen in my current workplace the difference that an institutional investment makes in the flourishing of the humanities on campus. This flourishing may attract students to an institution, even if these students do not end up majoring in the liberal arts. During the six years when my current institution, a regional comprehensive state university in Georgia, had an opera singer as president and an English literature medievalist as provost, our enrollment grew every year.

This is anecdotal, but I have heard enough other such stories to know that this is not unique. Furthermore, while this is again anecdotal, I have yet to hear of an institution that reversed its enrollment decline by investing in trade programs at the cost of sidelining (or even eliminating) the humanities. And yet, school after school keeps proposing this fix. Please remind me: what's that term for when folks keep doing the exact same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?

[Wahoo Redux]

I think the outcome is now a given, so few have been publishing and opining on this subject.

This piece is focused on research money, primarily in history.

IHE: Does Humanities Research Still Matter?

[Hibush]

This piece is focused on research money, primarily in history.

IHE: Does Humanities Research Still Matter?

The loss of what little funding existed for grad student research is indeed troubling.

The funding pools need to be a lot bigger. When research-grant budgets are mostly for personnel, including grad students, then humanities research isn't going to be much cheaper than science. For an R1, which have mean research expenditures of $400k per professor per year, keeping 10 research-active humanities faculty would mean having millions in grant revenue for the department. The lost sources are tiny relative to what's needed for vitality.

The NEH has a budget line now, but there is hardly any appropriation. Increasing that number is worthwhile. The author does not seem to know how that would work, which is cultivating the appropriation committee members over many years with the zeal (if not money) of a corn lobbyist. Faculty could be doing that now.

But there is also the Willie Sutton approach. Go where the money is. Top of the Federal list is the Defense Department. And they are interested in humanities. They have one of the best graduate language programs in the country. They hire a lot of historians, because the need to know what happened and what they can learn from it. Tapping into DOD money probably doesn't even require congressional action, it could be an allocation of funds from an existing program. That requries persuading those who run it that funding research at universities is worthwhile.

Money is important for keeping a discipline going. Schools sure are not paying for it out of tuition revenue. Throwing up ones hands, conceding that there is no money, will doom a discipline.