Are the Humanities Doomed?

[Hibush]

Due to the lack of interest, over several years, in a B.A. in Philosophy, we began in the fall of 2019 to collapse the program and to stop accepting new students as we had less than twenty students enrolled and five faculty to service them," a Liberty University spokesperson said." From IHE.

Given that philosophy, of a sort, is central to a Liberty education, it is surprising that they did not push for greater success of the program.

(The choice of words brings up an image of the five faculty changing the oil in the students. What is the relationship between students and faculty at Liberty?)

[polly_mer]

Due to the lack of interest, over several years, in a B.A. in Philosophy, we began in the fall of 2019 to collapse the program and to stop accepting new students as we had less than twenty students enrolled and five faculty to service them," a Liberty University spokesperson said." From IHE.

Given that philosophy, of a sort, is central to a Liberty education, it is surprising that they did not push for greater success of the program.

(The choice of words brings up an image of the five faculty changing the oil in the students. What is the relationship between students and faculty at Liberty?)

Is Liberty still really invested in its on-campus program or have they continued to convert to almost all online?  Wikipedia lists Liberty University as having 95k online students and 15k in-person students.

20 people out of 15k seems like a rounding error that should be discontinued.  Offering general education courses with a handful of electives is a different scheduling and staffing issue than ensuring that the program is offering all the requirements for an actual philosophy degree.

One person lecturing to a big hall to meet general education requirements is different than having to have the small seminars that won't meet the minimum requirements for a normal section to run.

[Parasaurolophus]

Due to the lack of interest, over several years, in a B.A. in Philosophy, we began in the fall of 2019 to collapse the program and to stop accepting new students as we had less than twenty students enrolled and five faculty to service them," a Liberty University spokesperson said." From IHE.

Given that philosophy, of a sort, is central to a Liberty education, it is surprising that they did not push for greater success of the program.

(The choice of words brings up an image of the five faculty changing the oil in the students. What is the relationship between students and faculty at Liberty?)

It's not really all that surprising, really. Frankly, their major is quite weak--which, again, is not all that surprising, given the kind of institution it is, and the fact that the (seven!) dudes teaching in that department do little other than apologetics. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that there's still a market for that kind of philosophy, but there you have it. It's pretty much only alive in US.

Honestly, I kind of think this is a good thing. It's bad for the faculty members, of course, but... well, if I'm being honest, I don't think the work they're doing is especially good for the discipline, let alone society.

[Hibush]

Due to the lack of interest, over several years, in a B.A. in Philosophy, we began in the fall of 2019 to collapse the program and to stop accepting new students as we had less than twenty students enrolled and five faculty to service them," a Liberty University spokesperson said." From IHE.

Given that philosophy, of a sort, is central to a Liberty education, it is surprising that they did not push for greater success of the program.

(The choice of words brings up an image of the five faculty changing the oil in the students. What is the relationship between students and faculty at Liberty?)

It's not really all that surprising, really. Frankly, their major is quite weak--which, again, is not all that surprising, given the kind of institution it is, and the fact that the (seven!) dudes teaching in that department do little other than apologetics. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that there's still a market for that kind of philosophy, but there you have it. It's pretty much only alive in US.

Honestly, I kind of think this is a good thing. It's bad for the faculty members, of course, but... well, if I'm being honest, I don't think the work they're doing is especially good for the discipline, let alone society.

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.


(Related thread)

[Wahoo Redux]

Due to the lack of interest, over several years, in a B.A. in Philosophy, we began in the fall of 2019 to collapse the program and to stop accepting new students as we had less than twenty students enrolled and five faculty to service them," a Liberty University spokesperson said." From IHE.

Given that philosophy, of a sort, is central to a Liberty education, it is surprising that they did not push for greater success of the program.

(The choice of words brings up an image of the five faculty changing the oil in the students. What is the relationship between students and faculty at Liberty?)

It's not really all that surprising, really. Frankly, their major is quite weak--which, again, is not all that surprising, given the kind of institution it is, and the fact that the (seven!) dudes teaching in that department do little other than apologetics. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that there's still a market for that kind of philosophy, but there you have it. It's pretty much only alive in US.

Honestly, I kind of think this is a good thing. It's bad for the faculty members, of course, but... well, if I'm being honest, I don't think the work they're doing is especially good for the discipline, let alone society.

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.


(Related thread)

Those of us in the liberal arts are terrible about thinking in these terms or designing programs that carve a niche.  It's part of the reason our majors are dying. 

It an be done.  Bowling Green in Ohio channeled its energies into a popular culture major that, while maybe not competing with the elite schools, really fills the conferences and grad programs with faculty and students.  Anybody who does anything in that field knows about BG.

[polly_mer]

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.


(Related thread)

Those of us in the liberal arts are terrible about thinking in these terms or designing programs that carve a niche.  It's part of the reason our majors are dying. 

It an be done.  Bowling Green in Ohio channeled its energies into a popular culture major that, while maybe not competing with the elite schools, really fills the conferences and grad programs with faculty and students.  Anybody who does anything in that field knows about BG.

I agree with Wahoo that part of the problem for many programs is indeed not investing the resources into carving out a niche that would attract a core of specific students from all over.

However, finding that niche can be hard, especially when the current faculty were chosen for their diversity of interests to cover the breadth of the generic major comparable to a vibrant program at a huge institution.

[Parasaurolophus]

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.

I mean, they could have tried, I guess. But the competition is Oxford, Notre Dame, Georgetown... A lower bar would be to do it respectably. But then Liberty's reputation gets in the way, and you don't have a rubber stamp program any more.

[marshwiggle]

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.


(Related thread)

Those of us in the liberal arts are terrible about thinking in these terms or designing programs that carve a niche.  It's part of the reason our majors are dying. 

It an be done.  Bowling Green in Ohio channeled its energies into a popular culture major that, while maybe not competing with the elite schools, really fills the conferences and grad programs with faculty and students.  Anybody who does anything in that field knows about BG.

I agree with Wahoo that part of the problem for many programs is indeed not investing the resources into carving out a niche that would attract a core of specific students from all over.

Isn't part of the problem intrinsic? Specifically, the big defence of the humanities, general education, etc., that I've seen is that this is timeless, universal knowledge. So the very idea of tailoring the offerings to a specific place and time culturally is anathema to many in those fields.

[Wahoo Redux]

Even if the market is modest, couldn't they have invested in being the #1 apologetics program in the world ? Not an important goal from the perspective of most philosophers, but apologetics seems to be to a central field to the leadership there. The institution could have taken it as a point of pride.


(Related thread)

Those of us in the liberal arts are terrible about thinking in these terms or designing programs that carve a niche.  It's part of the reason our majors are dying. 

It an be done.  Bowling Green in Ohio channeled its energies into a popular culture major that, while maybe not competing with the elite schools, really fills the conferences and grad programs with faculty and students.  Anybody who does anything in that field knows about BG.

I agree with Wahoo that part of the problem for many programs is indeed not investing the resources into carving out a niche that would attract a core of specific students from all over.

Isn't part of the problem intrinsic? Specifically, the big defence of the humanities, general education, etc., that I've seen is that this is timeless, universal knowledge. So the very idea of tailoring the offerings to a specific place and time culturally is anathema to many in those fields.

Not really, Marshy.

[mahagonny]

What good is it to have a niche if you can't scratch it?

[Parasaurolophus]

What good is it to have a niche if you can't scratch it?

Only works when you mispronounce it.

[Wahoo Redux]

What good is it to have a niche if you can't scratch it?

I have an ointment.  Takes care of the niche right quick.

[polly_mer]

Isn't part of the problem intrinsic? Specifically, the big defence of the humanities, general education, etc., that I've seen is that this is timeless, universal knowledge. So the very idea of tailoring the offerings to a specific place and time culturally is anathema to many in those fields.

The niche part is why someone should choose program A over all the other programs with a similar title (e.g., English or history or philosophy)

The niche doesn't have to be '1983 Jacksonville, Florida as American historians know it'. 

The niche could be project-based learning as one immersive course at a time that counts as 15 credits in a multidisciplinary way.  Cornell College has a niche of taking one course at a time in three-week terms.

The niche could be a lack of formal majors, but guided for each individual student to make a unique path with a large breadth of experience in multiple liberal arts areas.  Hampshire College is an example of this.

The niche could be old-England-style tutorial-based with small cohorts who do a lot of individual writing.

St. John's College in the US has a niche that is distinct from even a typical SLAC by focusing on the great books with everyone studying together.

The problem for many programs is being basically the same as the other programs, even to the point of asserting what makes this particular program special (small seminar classes with full-time faculty and a true 1/3 gen ed, 1/3 major, 1/3 free electives curriculum that include study abroad!) being standard boilerplate while trying to compete for the small percentage of people looking for that specific experience.

[spork]

Any 18-year old who is seriously interested in philosophy and academically capable of completing a real undergraduate philosophy program is not going to attend Liberty University. There might be naive 18-year olds who get persuaded to do whatever Liberty advertises as a "pre-law" program, and that curricular track might include a philosophy course or two, but that's not enough to make a philosophy major viable.

[marshwiggle]

Isn't part of the problem intrinsic? Specifically, the big defence of the humanities, general education, etc., that I've seen is that this is timeless, universal knowledge. So the very idea of tailoring the offerings to a specific place and time culturally is anathema to many in those fields.

The niche part is why someone should choose program A over all the other programs with a similar title (e.g., English or history or philosophy)

The niche doesn't have to be '1983 Jacksonville, Florida as American historians know it'. 

The niche could be project-based learning as one immersive course at a time that counts as 15 credits in a multidisciplinary way.  Cornell College has a niche of taking one course at a time in three-week terms.

The niche could be a lack of formal majors, but guided for each individual student to make a unique path with a large breadth of experience in multiple liberal arts areas.  Hampshire College is an example of this.

The niche could be old-England-style tutorial-based with small cohorts who do a lot of individual writing.

St. John's College in the US has a niche that is distinct from even a typical SLAC by focusing on the great books with everyone studying together.

OK, that makes sense.

The problem for many programs is being basically the same as the other programs, even to the point of asserting what makes this particular program special (small seminar classes with full-time faculty and a true 1/3 gen ed, 1/3 major, 1/3 free electives curriculum that include study abroad!) being standard boilerplate while trying to compete for the small percentage of people looking for that specific experience.

Just looking at the examples above, they all require major restructuring of programs, or academic timetable, or whatever. The "boilerplate" approach is all about small tweaks to the norm but marketed as innovative. (And by defintion, if you're going to be unique you have to comeup with something original so you can't copy something that works for someone else.) And getting all your faculty on board for that kind of endeavour is like collecting unicorn tears.