Are the Humanities Doomed?

[Ruralguy]

In our nascent curriculum review,  the languages will likely get some cuts, but so will the sciences. Our gen ed requirements for both of those are a bit more rich than most places. At least at my school, they don't have very many majors, and if it weren't for the gen eds, they'd all be in some jeopardy (modern not being much better off that classics, without gen eds included).

[Wahoo Redux]

Old English is not just "only sort of a foreign language"; it is entirely a foreign language, with a few words recognizable to modern English speakers, just as is the case in modern German. " Hafast þu gefered þæt ðe feor ond neah ealne wideferhþ weras ehtigað, efne swa side swa sæ bebugeð, windgeard, weallas" — that's not just "only sort of a foreign language" so that your average person on the street can tell you what it means — nor do undergrads pick it up without a lot of work.

Old English is, indeed, an entirely different language.  I found it extremely difficult, but I would be all for reinstituting the thorn and wynn.

[ciao_yall]

Thought of this thread while reading this article about choosing one's college major.

Santa  Clara  University  is located in the middle of Silicon Valley and  has excellent local professional programs.  What do fora readers think?

[Hibush]

Thought of this thread while reading this article about choosing one's college major.

Santa  Clara  University  is located in the middle of Silicon Valley and  has excellent local professional programs.  What do fora readers think?

The quote most pertinent to our discussion here is "the job students think they are preparing themselves for, by majoring in what appears to them to be a practical or immediately applicable field, they could have gotten that same job with a humanities degree," strikes me as untrue for many fields. The specific situation she's likely referring to is the original anecdote where someone studies "practical" tech that they hate and ultimately get a non-tech job that suits them.

The attitude seems right for getting humanities majors jobs when "the English Department has ramped up its internship program and brought in consultants to help students "identify and give names to the skills they had gained as English majors and learn to articulate them and translate them into language that would be of value in the job marketplace." Those internships are often with local tech firms as well as others.

They also have very good students. How many of your humanities majors think like this one? "Ultimately offered a job at Apple [7 mi from campus] after graduation, Yang says she hustled to take advantage of every career prep opportunity she could find at Santa Clara—from networking groups and mentorship circles to career fairs and student clubs. ... You have to learn skills that are attractive to recruiters. Taking classes wasn't enough, they're looking for leadership, technical skills ... you have to package it nicely, so an employer finds you valuable."

I think of Santa Clara as training and connecting a lot of the non-tech business leadership in the south bay. Construction companies, banks, law firms, government... Go the the successful ones around San José, and you will find Santa Clara alumni.

[marshwiggle]

Thought of this thread while reading this article about choosing one's college major.

Santa  Clara  University  is located in the middle of Silicon Valley and  has excellent local professional programs.  What do fora readers think?

Here's an interesting point:

As part of orientation a few years ago, Rose Nakamoto, director of Santa Clara's Career Center, says the vast majority of first-year students said they think about their future every single day.
That's consistent with the nationwide trend of people going to college not to expand their worldviews or become inquisitive scholars—at least, those aren't the primary reasons—Nakamoto says, citing UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute findings that 83.5% of college freshmen said the No. 1 reason was really "getting a better job."

Perhaps this provides a bit of nuance to these discussions about "job training" versus "expanding their worldviews". It's not specifically about getting "a" job, but getting a "better" job.

[spork]

Thought of this thread while reading this article about choosing one's college major.

Santa  Clara  University  is located in the middle of Silicon Valley and  has excellent local professional programs.  What do fora readers think?

Here's an interesting point:

As part of orientation a few years ago, Rose Nakamoto, director of Santa Clara's Career Center, says the vast majority of first-year students said they think about their future every single day.
That's consistent with the nationwide trend of people going to college not to expand their worldviews or become inquisitive scholars—at least, those aren't the primary reasons—Nakamoto says, citing UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute findings that 83.5% of college freshmen said the No. 1 reason was really "getting a better job."

Perhaps this provides a bit of nuance to these discussions about "job training" versus "expanding their worldviews". It's not specifically about getting "a" job, but getting a "better" job.

Burnham's statement about "mindsets" indicates that she has very little knowledge of how, why, or what people learn in college.

That 19% decrease in education studies: if "education studies" means "programs for K-12 teaching licensure," low post-college salaries and curricular structure might explain some of the decrease (e.g., if you're capable of getting a B.A. in economics and teaching for a few years after college through Teach For America before exercising some other occupational option, why major in education?).

[apl68]

Old English is not just "only sort of a foreign language"; it is entirely a foreign language, with a few words recognizable to modern English speakers, just as is the case in modern German. " Hafast þu gefered þæt ðe feor ond neah ealne wideferhþ weras ehtigað, efne swa side swa sæ bebugeð, windgeard, weallas" — that's not just "only sort of a foreign language" so that your average person on the street can tell you what it means — nor do undergrads pick it up without a lot of work.

Even in translation it's still "sort of a foreign language," until you figure out what phrases like "whale-road" and "wound-hoe" mean.

Hearing people speak Old English reminds me vaguely of the Swedish Chef.  Which may well be what we modern English speakers sound like to non-speakers.

[spork]

Provosts: liberal arts education is in decline.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/survey/survey-shows-how-provosts-faced-pandemic

[marshwiggle]

Provosts: liberal arts education is in decline.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/survey/survey-shows-how-provosts-faced-pandemic

Interesting quote:

While 93 percent agree that a liberal arts education is central to undergraduate studies, 73 percent said that they expect to see the number of liberal arts colleges decline significantly over the next five years. Additionally, most (92 percent) say that liberal arts education is not well understood in the U.S.

For people who think "liberal arts education" is central to undergraduate studies, they clearly aren't very competent at marketing if liberal arts education is not well understood in the U.S.

(And these are people in the business of education; i.e. explaining things to people.) It's pretty ironic.

On edit: More of the same

On general education, the provosts are, again, strong supporters. Ninety-three percent said that general education is a crucial part of any college degree.

But only 26 percent agree that "students at my college understand the purpose of our general education requirements."

If they can't even explain the purpose of gen. ed. to their own students, good luck explaining it outside the ivory tower.

[Hibush]

For people who think "liberal arts education" is central to undergraduate studies, they clearly aren't very competent at marketing if liberal arts education is not well understood in the U.S.

(And these are people in the business of education; i.e. explaining things to people.) It's pretty ironic.

But only 26 percent agree that "students at my college understand the purpose of our general education requirements."

If they can't even explain the purpose of gen. ed. to their own students, good luck explaining it outside the ivory tower.

The irony is acute, no doubt about it. I wonder whether there is a disparity among colleges, as in all else.

There are places like Santa Clara just above and Columbia that draw thoughtful and driven students who seek out the liberal-arts experience, and that deliver a curriculum that is both true to the tradition and fully engaged in preparing students for a meaningful career.

The other group either attracts student to their liberal-arts curriculum who don't understand the purpose of their presence, or that are so high in the ivory tower that "getting a job after college" is a difficult-to-grasp concept that apparently applies to the ant-sized people one spies when looking out the windows.

[mleok]

I was interested in the comment that liberal arts colleges offer a high ROI, and looked at the corresponding report,

https://1gyhoq479ufd3yna29x7ubjn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Liberal-Arts-ROI.pdf

To me, it seems like liberal arts colleges that offer a high ROI tend to be the small elite private liberal arts colleges, which do not have to content to significant numbers of low income students. The irony of course is that the "liberal arts" college with the highest ROI is Harvey Mudd, which is essentially the Clairemont Colleges' answer to Caltech.

[Hibush]

I was interested in the comment that liberal arts colleges offer a high ROI, and looked at the corresponding report,

https://1gyhoq479ufd3yna29x7ubjn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Liberal-Arts-ROI.pdf

To me, it seems like liberal arts colleges that offer a high ROI tend to be the small elite private liberal arts colleges, which do not have to content to significant numbers of low income students. The irony of course is that the "liberal arts" college with the highest ROI is Harvey Mudd, which is essentially the Clairemont Colleges' answer to Caltech.

How strong is the correlation between % engineering majors and post-graduation income among small colleges?  Engineers tend to have significantly higher income out the gate, so that alone seems to be a big contributor to institutional means and medians.

[Wahoo Redux]

Most provosts (84 percent) agree that a high-quality undergraduate education requires healthy departments in fields like English. But they also note that politicians and board members are prioritizing STEM and professional programs over general education (72 percent).

So, the professional educators have one opinion.
The politicians and board members have another.

[marshwiggle]

Most provosts (84 percent) agree that a high-quality undergraduate education requires healthy departments in fields like English. But they also note that politicians and board members are prioritizing STEM and professional programs over general education (72 percent).

So, the professional educators have one opinion.
The politicians and board members have another.

Well, as above, if they can't explain to their own students, they probably can't explain to their own board members either.

[Wahoo Redux]

Most provosts (84 percent) agree that a high-quality undergraduate education requires healthy departments in fields like English. But they also note that politicians and board members are prioritizing STEM and professional programs over general education (72 percent).

So, the professional educators have one opinion.
The politicians and board members have another.

Well, as above, if they can't explain to their own students, they probably can't explain to their own board members either.

Who said we (or they) can't explain?

I think there have been lots of cogent, logical explanations.

What I see are obdurate mindsets based on misinformation and weird biases.