Votes have Second Thoughts About Biden

[mahagonny]

Taking an incredibly fractured public and you're dissing him on unity based on...what...6 months? Really? When the Republicans are still fantasizing about the last election? As Joe might say "Gimme a break!"

"The republicans" do not all think the same things about the last election. Some think it was definitely stolen, some like William Barr, think it was definitely not stolen, and we should forget about it. Others might be somewhere in the middle, for instance the view that there were more irregularities than usual and there's enough reason to be concerned. The latest involves people in GA who have moved yet voted in their previous neighborhood. These discussions do not continue to have life merely because some are fanatical.
The view from much of the left, regarding a less divided nation, seems to be that the progressive ideas now being pushed will be accepted in time, as was for example, gay marriage. They won't be, I predict. Stigmatizing whiteness is something that people see rightly as, one, bearing cost to certain people, and two, not reasonably expected to produce the advertised result to others. Joe seems to be on board 100%, unless he's just planning to say later 'well I tried...those conservative judges blocked us...too bad' or something like that.
ETA: Some republicans are scared and annoyed thinking 'if voting is as easy as farting and the government gives away money and health care all the time and doesn't control its borders, and if I say anything about it I'm a racist, then what kind of leaders are we going to get. And how would this be any kind of responsible way to take care of our society?'

[mahagonny]

con't

yes, you make a good point. No one has a magic wand that can make the USA stop fighting right away. I just wonder if we've passed the point of no return.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Taking an incredibly fractured public and you're dissing him on unity based on...what...6 months? Really? When the Republicans are still fantasizing about the last election? As Joe might say "Gimme a break!"

"The republicans" do not all think the same things about the last election. Some think it was definitely stolen, some like William Barr, think it was definitely not stolen, and we should forget about it. Others might be somewhere in the middle, for instance the view that there were more irregularities than usual and there's enough reason to be concerned. The latest involves people in GA who have moved yet voted in their previous neighborhood. These discussions do not continue to have life merely because some are fanatical.

This is quite a stretch when most Republicans in the House, many Republican legislatures at the state-level, and the last Republican president (who all Republican politicians say is the party's leader) are making evidence-free allegations of fraud all the time in an effort to undermine confidence in American democracy.

[mahagonny]

Taking an incredibly fractured public and you're dissing him on unity based on...what...6 months? Really? When the Republicans are still fantasizing about the last election? As Joe might say "Gimme a break!"

"The republicans" do not all think the same things about the last election. Some think it was definitely stolen, some like William Barr, think it was definitely not stolen, and we should forget about it. Others might be somewhere in the middle, for instance the view that there were more irregularities than usual and there's enough reason to be concerned. The latest involves people in GA who have moved yet voted in their previous neighborhood. These discussions do not continue to have life merely because some are fanatical.

This is quite a stretch when most Republicans in the House, many Republican legislatures at the state-level, and the last Republican president (who all Republican politicians say is the party's leader) are making evidence-free allegations of fraud all the time in an effort to undermine confidence in American democracy.

This last part of your post is an evidence-free (your term) attribution of motives. Some maybe making allegations of fraud without citing data, but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Taking an incredibly fractured public and you're dissing him on unity based on...what...6 months? Really? When the Republicans are still fantasizing about the last election? As Joe might say "Gimme a break!"

"The republicans" do not all think the same things about the last election. Some think it was definitely stolen, some like William Barr, think it was definitely not stolen, and we should forget about it. Others might be somewhere in the middle, for instance the view that there were more irregularities than usual and there's enough reason to be concerned. The latest involves people in GA who have moved yet voted in their previous neighborhood. These discussions do not continue to have life merely because some are fanatical.

This is quite a stretch when most Republicans in the House, many Republican legislatures at the state-level, and the last Republican president (who all Republican politicians say is the party's leader) are making evidence-free allegations of fraud all the time in an effort to undermine confidence in American democracy.

This last part of your post is an evidence-free (your term) attribution of motives. Some maybe making allegations of fraud without citing data, but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence.

There is no evidence of fraud, there have been several professional audits, and law enforcement agencies across the country have assessed the election repeatedly and found it to be free and fair. A person who contends that there was fraud is either cynically lying or massively stupid. If the former, then they are actively trying to undermine American democracy, if the latter then they are unintentionally undermining American democracy due to their own stupidity and gullibility of people who say things like:

Some maybe making allegations of fraud without citing data, but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence.

And, per your request, here are a few citations to show that these people lied in an effort to undermine the will of American voters:

• Guiliani tells Trump team to declare victory on election as they all saw red mirage fading: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/jul/13/rudy-giuliani-trump-book
• Trump planned to claim victory prematurely: trump-claim-election-victory-ballots-97eb12b9-5e35-402f-9ea3-0ccfb47f613f.html
• Trump claimed the election was rigged months before the election: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trump-is-attacking-american-democracy-at-its-core

And let's not pretend that this is the first idiotic conspiracy that has captivated the modern GOP. I'm sure you remember Birtherism, another conspiracy theory cynically advanced by Republican politicians in order to make dim witted voters doubt the legitimacy of America's rightly elected president.

[mahagonny]

And I suppose you were about this annoyed in 2016 when Hillary lost but many democrats refused to believe the count was accurate.

[San Joaquin]

Red herring.

[waterboy]

Nothing...and I mean nothing... happened after 2016 that remotely came close to the attacks on democracy that have been driven by republicans since the 2020 election. To offer that is indeed a red herring and, frankly, disgraceful.

[mahagonny]

I too thought the 'insurrection' (if that's what it was) was disgraceful and I spent a good two or three weeks in shock from it. But the things I've seen since then are altogether different. Sure, republicans give lip service to agreeing with Trump, but that doesn't mean they believe the election was flat out stolen. It may turn out Trump was the last thing standing between our beloved nation and the budding theocracy of antiracism. Although I still have hopes that some of the conservative intellectuals (most of them black) can step up to the plate and save us. Ibram Kendi is the man of the hour and he is an antisocial cult leader. Harris and Biden are looking more and more like they're just riding his coattails while they can. The only freedom Trump would have deprived us of would be the freedom to not choose him as president. the other group will take away much more than that.

[kaysixteen]

Let's try acting like a Socratic teacher here-- what is your evidence for these claims?

[mamselle]

My opinion has indeed changed...for the better.

As someone said upthread, I would have preferred someone different....two or three someones come to mind.

But he's clear-headed, works hard, and builds harmony, or tries to, not negativity built on deceit.

It's so refreshing having an adult with the appropriate skills for good governance in the White House again....

M.

[mahagonny]

Let's try acting like a Socratic teacher here-- what is your evidence for these claims?

A minute and a half read and the tyranny being planned should be clear. This department of anti-racism would have the authority to supersede anyone, including the POTUS, by controlling what we say and hear. It could decree that the president's state of the union address was inaccurate and needs corrections. The president, the congress and the courts will be puppets to the antiracist dogma.
And of course, the size of government to monitor and enforce 'antiracism' in every sphere? Unlimited. Spying? Censorship? Of course.
And let's remember too, a leader of the only and one true religion doesn't have to proclaim himself the leader to get himself annointed. Right now he's trying to win the debate by neutralizing it. Gentle as a lamb -- 'the anti-racist opponents are having an argument with themselves. There's no argument.'

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2019/how-to-fix-politics-in-america/inequality/pass-an-anti-racist-constitutional-amendment/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/opponents-critical-race-theory-are-arguing-themselves/619391/

Apropos os this, here's another pleasant Friday morning read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Ministry_of_Public_Enlightenment_and_Propaganda

[Sun_Worshiper]

And I suppose you were about this annoyed in 2016 when Hillary lost but many democrats refused to believe the count was accurate.

I don't recall democrats refusing to believe the count was accurate. What I do recall is some saying that Trump was an illegitimate president because of Russian interference in the election and collusion. And while such interference certainly did happen (collusion probably not), I did think that kind of talk was dangerous for democracy and I said as much.

None of that excuses the lying and outright sedition from Republicans, accompanied by efforts to overturn the results of a free and fair election on the basis of idiotic conspiracy theories.

[Istiblennius]

I guess I can understand how anti-racism would feel threatening to you if you are a straight-up racist.

That discomfort that some white folks are feeling around how people are talking about race that they just cannot seem to deal with? That is a tiny fraction of the discomfort and inconvenience experienced by BIPIC folks in how they are talked about and treated due to - wait for it - race. But because it is now happening to white people (OMG we're being stereotyped because of our skin color - how appalling), suddenly it's the existential threat of our time. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

[Sun_Worshiper]

I too thought the 'insurrection' (if that's what it was) was disgraceful and I spent a good two or three weeks in shock from it. But the things I've seen since then are altogether different. Sure, republicans give lip service to agreeing with Trump, but that doesn't mean they believe the election was flat out stolen. It may turn out Trump was the last thing standing between our beloved nation and the budding theocracy of antiracism. Although I still have hopes that some of the conservative intellectuals (most of them black) can step up to the plate and save us. Ibram Kendi is the man of the hour and he is an antisocial cult leader. Harris and Biden are looking more and more like they're just riding his coattails while they can. The only freedom Trump would have deprived us of would be the freedom to not choose him as president. the other group will take away much more than that.

Smh at conservatives thinking that we should have overthrown American democracy because they are so afraid of "anti-racism." Doesn't get much more anti-American than that folks.