Academic Freedom and Cancel Culture

[mahagonny]

I don't see what the hubub is about in cancellation and purportedly questionable hiring t or by institutions of higher learning -- so long as there is freedom of choice and competition. A speaker who is cancelled at college A may well be invited to speak at college B or C. A person denied tenure at college X may well receive it at college Y.

Classical liberalism allows just that, which may make the situation hopeless, however.

[Classical] Liberalism – it is well to recall today – is the supreme form of generosity; it is the right which the majority concedes to minorities and hence is the noblest cry that has ever resounded on this planet. It announces the determination to share existence with the enemy; more than that, with an enemy which is weak. It was incredible that the human species should have arrived at so noble an attitude, so paradoxical, so refined, so anti-natural. Hence it is not to be wondered that this same humanity should soon appear anxious to get rid of it. It is a discipline too difficult and complex to take firm root on earth.

--Ortega, 1932.

And let all that fresh racism go to waste?

Lol. Mahagonny, what would you know about assessing someone for tenure or evaluating scholarship?

Do you mean how much do I know about how it's purported to work or how much do I know about how it does work? How much do we know about human nature? Did you see how much funding the Kendi man is getting nowadays?
There are enough signs to raise questions about this 1619 work. Not just from conservatives. An awful lot rests on it and the awards for it.

[mahagonny]

And feel free to drop some evidence that the public agrees with MK about anything.

Here's one:  https://time.com/collection-post/70888/megyn-kelly-2014-time-100/

[marshwiggle]

I don't see what the hubub is about in cancellation and purportedly questionable hiring t or by institutions of higher learning -- so long as there is freedom of choice and competition. A speaker who is cancelled at college A may well be invited to speak at college B or C. A person denied tenure at college X may well receive it at college Y.

One of the big problems with speakers getting cancelled is that it often happens at the last minute, or even with protesters preventing it as it happens. All of the planning and cost have been incurred by then and are lost. If an institution has an approval process for speakers, then that's the level at which concerns should be raised.
Mob rule is not good for democracy, whatever part of the spectrum the mob comes from.

[Sun_Worshiper]

And feel free to drop some evidence that the public agrees with MK about anything.

Here's one:  https://time.com/collection-post/70888/megyn-kelly-2014-time-100/

Did you even read this before posting it? It doesn't show that the public agrees with Megyn Kelly on the 1619 project or anything else. It only shows that Brit Hume and Brit Hume's wife liked Megyn Kelly and that the former thought her crappy "reporting" was insightful.

By showing this as "evidence" you're making it clear that you aren't capable of evaluating the scholarship of NHJ or anyone else. God help us all if you are reviewing scientific papers for journals.

[mahagonny]

And feel free to drop some evidence that the public agrees with MK about anything.

Here's one:  https://time.com/collection-post/70888/megyn-kelly-2014-time-100/

Did you even read this before posting it? It doesn't show that the public agrees with Megyn Kelly on the 1619 project or anything else. It only shows that Brit Hume and Brit Hume's wife liked Megyn Kelly and that the former thought her crappy "reporting" was insightful.

By showing this as "evidence" you're making it clear that you aren't capable of evaluating the scholarship of NHJ or anyone else. God help us all if you are reviewing scientific papers for journals.

Well, I answered your request literally. Obviously if Kelly was included in Time's list of most influential people, she probably has had a lot of influence.
Here's what we could do, Sunny: instead of just butting heads let's work together. Keep an eye out for more info about this. I suspect the popularity is falling as it gets more tied to sweeping changes. A lot of people give lip service to supporting left activism when it involves race out of fear of being labeled racist. This changes when they come for your kids.

[Sun_Worshiper]

And feel free to drop some evidence that the public agrees with MK about anything.

Here's one:  https://time.com/collection-post/70888/megyn-kelly-2014-time-100/

Did you even read this before posting it? It doesn't show that the public agrees with Megyn Kelly on the 1619 project or anything else. It only shows that Brit Hume and Brit Hume's wife liked Megyn Kelly and that the former thought her crappy "reporting" was insightful.

By showing this as "evidence" you're making it clear that you aren't capable of evaluating the scholarship of NHJ or anyone else. God help us all if you are reviewing scientific papers for journals.

Well, I answered your request literally. Obviously if Kelly was included in Time's list of most influential people, she probably has had a lot of influence.
Here's what we could do, Sunny: instead of just butting heads let's work together. Keep an eye out for more info about this. I suspect the popularity is falling as it gets more tied to sweeping changes. A lot of people give lip service to supporting left activism when it involves race out of fear of being labeled racist. This changes when they come for your kids.

You actually didn't answer my request at all or validate your claim at all. Either you are purposely sharing weak data to disingenuously support your claim or you are powerfully data illiterate - either way, you should stay far away from data and data analysis.

And you don't need to tell me to keep watching, because I always watch the polling data, which is why I was able to thoroughly and easily debunk your every claim in this thread.

[mahagonny]

Randi Weingarten and the MTA  are all ready to spill blood over the new innovative 'teaching.' (I use quotations, because more often, knowledge is meant to blend with what you've already learned, whereas if you are taught that you may not treat people the same irrespective of their skin color, you're being fed knowledge that denounces things already learned; thus it is more likely political indoctrination, not new knowledge.)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/opinions/teachers-union-critical-race-theory-schools-weingarten/index.html

"My union, the American Federation of Teachers, will defend any member who gets in trouble for teaching honest history. We have a legal defense fund ready to go. And we are preparing for litigation as we speak. Teaching the truth is not radical or wrong."

Since it's clear she's all excited about the new ideas, I note that she doesn't say that she'd have the MTA also defend any member who insists on teaching the way they did last year, before we went to bed one night and woke up to learn that the truth about the past  had changed. If they wouldn't then they don't support academic freedom.

This is similar to the frustration I'm having with my union these days. Instead of advocating for the rights and working conditions of teachers generally they are inserting the union into culture wars and pretending we all think the same.

[lightning]

Randi Weingarten and the MTA  are all ready to spill blood over the new innovative 'teaching.' (I use quotations, because more often, knowledge is meant to blend with what you've already learned, whereas if you are taught that you may not treat people the same irrespective of their skin color, you're being fed knowledge that denounces things already learned; thus it is more likely political indoctrination, not new knowledge.)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/opinions/teachers-union-critical-race-theory-schools-weingarten/index.html

"My union, the American Federation of Teachers, will defend any member who gets in trouble for teaching honest history. We have a legal defense fund ready to go. And we are preparing for litigation as we speak. Teaching the truth is not radical or wrong."

Since it's clear she's all excited about the new ideas, I note that she doesn't say that she'd have the MTA also defend any member who insists on teaching the way they did last year, before we went to bed one night and woke up to learn that the truth about the past  had changed. If they wouldn't then they don't support academic freedom.

This is similar to the frustration I'm having with my union these days. Instead of advocating for the rights and working conditions of teachers generally they are inserting the union into culture wars and pretending we all think the same.

Spill blood? You need to use a better example of the use of violence in cancel culture wars. I suggest you look at the Lincoln Children's Museum (Nebraska) who was forced to cancel their LGBT event earlier this week because of threat of violence (including death threats). I don't know if it's possible to go any lower than threatening children, in order to get a cultural event canceled. But then again, I didn't think the use of violence on Jan. 6 could ever be on the table either.

[mahagonny]

Randi Weingarten and the MTA  are all ready to spill blood over the new innovative 'teaching.' (I use quotations, because more often, knowledge is meant to blend with what you've already learned, whereas if you are taught that you may not treat people the same irrespective of their skin color, you're being fed knowledge that denounces things already learned; thus it is more likely political indoctrination, not new knowledge.)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/opinions/teachers-union-critical-race-theory-schools-weingarten/index.html

"My union, the American Federation of Teachers, will defend any member who gets in trouble for teaching honest history. We have a legal defense fund ready to go. And we are preparing for litigation as we speak. Teaching the truth is not radical or wrong."

Since it's clear she's all excited about the new ideas, I note that she doesn't say that she'd have the MTA also defend any member who insists on teaching the way they did last year, before we went to bed one night and woke up to learn that the truth about the past  had changed. If they wouldn't then they don't support academic freedom.

This is similar to the frustration I'm having with my union these days. Instead of advocating for the rights and working conditions of teachers generally they are inserting the union into culture wars and pretending we all think the same.

Spill blood? You need to use a better example of the use of violence in cancel culture wars. I suggest you look at the Lincoln Children's Museum (Nebraska) who was forced to cancel their LGBT event earlier this week because of threat of violence (including death threats). I don't know if it's possible to go any lower than threatening children, in order to get a cultural event canceled. But then again, I didn't think the use of violence on Jan. 6 could ever be on the table either.

I meant it figuratively, but you prompt me to think of several things:
1. Parents in places like Loudoun, VA and others are soon going to realize they have to choice but to declare war on people who insist on CRT-derived approaches to teaching young children because the CRT mob thinks like an urban youth gang, i.e. 'anyone who would compromise or listen to differing ideas is a traitor';
2. Telling a child they need to understand they have defective character, as evidenced by immutable qualities such as skin color is psychological violence;
3. If there is nothing that could happen between you and another person that would motivate you to fight them physically, you have no firmly held moral beliefs. (Thanks to the effervescent Dr. Jordan Peterson for that one!)

I understand if the escalating culture wars are upsetting you. It is unnerving.

[lightning]

I know you meant it figuratively, but one side in the culture wars is more likely to take it literally. (e.g. the scumbags that threatened the LGBT participants in a children's museum event or the treasonous scumbags who threatened the life of the former vice-president on Jan 6, while he was trying to complete election formalities.)

So far, I'm not seeing any kind of violent CRT cancel culture activities that are on par with Jan. 6 or the children's museum in Nebraska).

There is certainly escalation rhetoric, but the violence and intent of violence is clearly coming from one side. You can talk all you want about "spill blood" and telling me it was figurative, but the actions from one side of the cancel culture wars is taking that stuff literally.

I don't even like to use the words "Civil War" anymore, when referencing culture wars, because there are scumbags out there who are literally arming themselves for a real & violent civil war, if the 2020 presidential election results are not reversed in August.

Words matter.

[mahagonny]

Words matter.

...but white lives don't. In fact, 'all lives' don't matter either. One may not say 'all lives matter' or 'white lives matter' without getting into trouble currently with the left.
Whereas people on the right are happy to hear, say, promote statements such as 'black lives matter'  'white lives matter' and 'all lives matter' as long as saying them does not promote mayhem, and are happy to fund police to protect those most vulnerable to homicide.

So it is clear that the condoning of homicide comes from the left, by and large, and also the tyranny over how violence in our society gets discussed.

Interesting information here: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

[lightning]

Words matter.

...but white lives don't. In fact, 'all lives' don't matter either. One may not say 'all lives matter' or 'white lives matter' without getting into trouble currently with the left.
Whereas people on the right are happy to hear, say, promote statements such as 'black lives matter'  'white lives matter' and 'all lives matter' as long as saying them does not promote mayhem, and are happy to fund police to protect those most vulnerable to homicide.

You said "white lives don't." Not me.

So it is clear that the condoning of homicide comes from the left, by and large, and also the tyranny over how violence in our society gets discussed.

Nothing you say is clear.

Interesting information here: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

No, not interesting or relevant to anyone except you.
Just like CRT, no one really gives a f**k except people like you and the parents that the right-wing rage machine picks out to put a few faces to the manufactured rage. Most parents on any aisle of the political spectrum are dis-engaged with k-12 curriculums (it's why if you even ask "what is CRT" to the average k-12 parent, they won't even take the time to inquire further--they just don't care). The only ones engaged with their schools are helicopter parents who want special treatment for their kid, especially when their kids' grades are disappointing, but the engagement has more to do with grades and less to do with curriculum.

Your pathetic and predictable attempt at using tangentially related topics as equivalencies (false equivalencies) to distract from the egregious cancel culture that happened at UNC & elsewhere (and violent in some cases), well, your playbook has bored most of us. That's why I only respond to you when I'm drinking coffee and having ice cream or involved in some other recreational activity (it beats watching mind-numbing TV). Thanks for entertaining me (and us), you clown.

[spork]

University of Mississippi reaches financial settlement with fired professor for an undisclosed amount:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/30/ole-miss-settles-professor.

[mahagonny]

Just like CRT, no one really gives a f**k except people like you and the parents that the right-wing rage machine picks out to put a few faces to the manufactured rage. Most parents on any aisle of the political spectrum are dis-engaged with k-12 curriculums (it's why if you even ask "what is CRT" to the average k-12 parent, they won't even take the time to inquire further--they just don't care). The only ones engaged with their schools are helicopter parents who want special treatment for their kid, especially when their kids' grades are disappointing, but the engagement has more to do with grades and less to do with curriculum.

I am amazed that you could think you know something as detailed as this so intimately from afar. Also frankly I don't appreciate your use of the term 'rage.' Sounds like it is intended to raise doubts about someone's mental stability. The parents in Loudoun are using their legal right to be heard and protest. They are saying 'we don't like what you are doing with our children and we want it to stop.' This is a sane response. If your point is you think there is a small enough number of them that they can be defeated, that's different. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what you hope. But 'manufactured rage' is a smear suggesting you think you need some bullying tactics to get what you want.

[lightning]

Just like CRT, no one really gives a f**k except people like you and the parents that the right-wing rage machine picks out to put a few faces to the manufactured rage. Most parents on any aisle of the political spectrum are dis-engaged with k-12 curriculums (it's why if you even ask "what is CRT" to the average k-12 parent, they won't even take the time to inquire further--they just don't care). The only ones engaged with their schools are helicopter parents who want special treatment for their kid, especially when their kids' grades are disappointing, but the engagement has more to do with grades and less to do with curriculum.

I am amazed that you could think you know something as detailed as this so intimately from afar. Also frankly I don't appreciate your use of the term 'rage.' Sounds like it is intended to raise doubts about someone's mental stability. The parents in Loudoun are using their legal right to be heard and protest. They are saying 'we don't like what you are doing with our children and we want it to stop.' This is a sane response. If your point is you think there is a small enough number of them that they can be defeated, that's different. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what you hope. But 'manufactured rage' is a smear suggesting you think you need some bullying tactics to get what you want.

I meant it figuratively. But, please go on with your wild and tangential speculation, as you probably need it to get through the day. I'll even let you have the last word on this, because I know it means a lot to you. Frankly, you are not even entertaining anymore--you are just boring.