The pre-med from hell??

[secundem_artem]

This one is going to beg and whine for every point on every single test or assignment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/us/dalee-sullivan-gpa-alpine.html?action=click&module=In%20Other%20News&pgtype=Homepage

[spork]

I saw this and thought, "Please God don't let this person get into medical school because she'll be a terrible physician."

[peitho]

I had a whole class like this, and it wasn't pretty. The case should have been thrown out.

[Vkw10]

I had a whole class like this, and it wasn't pretty. The case should have been thrown out.

Annoying as it is, the judge has to apply due process rules. I'll bet faculty at the College of Charleston are hoping she won't end up in their classes in the fall.

Sounds like she wants to see grades calculated for the two ranked higher. She's not going to get that, so she'll likely never be satisfied.

[lightning]

I saw this and thought, "Please God don't let this person get into medical school because she'll be a terrible physician."

I doubt that she will get into med school, now that she has gone public, with her grievances. Besides, "pre-med" doesn't mean anything. We have a lot of so-called "pre-meds" at my university, but relatively few get into med school. In fact, 2/3 of them are already failing most of the courses that are considered the core courses in the "pre-med" program by the end of their freshman year. But they continue to call themselves "pre-med" because . . . . well, we all know why.

[Hibush]

I saw this and thought, "Please God don't let this person get into medical school because she'll be a terrible physician."

I doubt that she will get into med school, now that she has gone public, with her grievances. Besides, "pre-med" doesn't mean anything. We have a lot of so-called "pre-meds" at my university, but relatively few get into med school. In fact, 2/3 of them are already failing most of the courses that are considered the core courses in the "pre-med" program by the end of their freshman year. But they continue to call themselves "pre-med" because . . . . well, we all know why.

As a prof in another area of biology, we get a number of transfers who started as premeds and realize by sophomore year (e.g. organic chemistry) that they won't be going to med school. The up side is that they also realize that they can use their intellect for something they genuinely enjoy and that medicine is not the only way to contribute to society.

This student, though. No thanks.

[spork]

I saw this and thought, "Please God don't let this person get into medical school because she'll be a terrible physician."

I doubt that she will get into med school, now that she has gone public, with her grievances. Besides, "pre-med" doesn't mean anything. We have a lot of so-called "pre-meds" at my university, but relatively few get into med school. In fact, 2/3 of them are already failing most of the courses that are considered the core courses in the "pre-med" program by the end of their freshman year. But they continue to call themselves "pre-med" because . . . . well, we all know why.

Unfortunately medical schools do not, as a rule, automatically screen out the applicants who have the kind of mentality that this person has. In fact, I would say that usually the medical school admissions process encourages this type of person to apply.

[Anon1787]

Law school would seem to be a better fit for her disposition and talents.

[ciao_yall]

From the article.

"She's already going to college, she already has scholarships,"

And the judge seems to be taking his time with her to make sure she understands what she is doing.

Who of us were mature enough to be doctors when we were 17? And always knew when to pick our battles?

[Caracal]

From the article.

"She's already going to college, she already has scholarships,"

And the judge seems to be taking his time with her to make sure she understands what she is doing.

Who of us were mature enough to be doctors when we were 17? And always knew when to pick our battles?

I went to a high school that just ranked students in quintiles, which seems like a much better approach. You don't want to encourage students to be overly competitive or spend their time figuring out how to game the system to get slightly higher GPAs. At some point you aren't measuring meaningful or important differences.

That said, I wouldn't want to spend my time looking at any of this, but I wouldn't totally dismiss the possibility that she's right. Certainly, this could be a student who would try to litigate everything on tests, but this might really be about very specific dynamics between her and the administration at this school. This is a very rural, very sparsely populated area. (I'd really love to go to Big Bend National Park which is close, apparently its beautiful and has some of the darkest skies in the country.) You have a student who is obviously very academically talented and motivated in a place where that might those things are going to really make her stand out.

The student is obviously lacking in perspective, but that's easy for me to say. I'm not a very bright teenager in rural west Texas.

[Charlotte]

The student is obviously lacking in perspective, but that's easy for me to say. I'm not a very bright teenager in rural west Texas.

Good point.

[kiana]

That said, I wouldn't want to spend my time looking at any of this, but I wouldn't totally dismiss the possibility that she's right. Certainly, this could be a student who would try to litigate everything on tests, but this might really be about very specific dynamics between her and the administration at this school. This is a very rural, very sparsely populated area. (I'd really love to go to Big Bend National Park which is close, apparently its beautiful and has some of the darkest skies in the country.) You have a student who is obviously very academically talented and motivated in a place where that might those things are going to really make her stand out.

The student is obviously lacking in perspective, but that's easy for me to say. I'm not a very bright teenager in rural west Texas.

Yes.

I had heard a similar story from a student of mine (although the school backed down when their father did show up with a lawyer). In their senior year, grades were edited in two courses long after assignments were submitted, dropping their grades sufficiently to move someone else ahead of them; they were set to be the first Black valedictorian the school had ever had. Small rural school in the south.

I'd like to see the end result here.

[Hegemony]

The fact that the state pays for the first-place person's freshman year of college is going to cause students who are high in the rankings to scrutinize the rankings process.

And it's not impossible that the process has been done sloppily at this high school. My own high school was peopled by administrators who were known for their sloppy and egregiously random application of rules. If that had kept me from the number one slot and cost me $20,000 or so, I would have contemplated taking action too.

We're just assuming that this student is out of line and acting entitled, but it's very possible that she's on to something real. It's not as if people in power have never been either corrupt or incompetent. And the stakes are high here, especially high for people who can't afford college. We can guess at this student's family finances, but we can't know. So: the system is working as it should — she is appealing to people who should adjudicate fairly. I hope that they will.

[pepsi_alum]

We're just assuming that this student is out of line and acting entitled, but it's very possible that she's on to something real. It's not as if people in power have never been either corrupt or incompetent. And the stakes are high here, especially high for people who can't afford college. We can guess at this student's family finances, but we can't know. So: the system is working as it should — she is appealing to people who should adjudicate fairly. I hope that they will.

Agreed. I have seen high school administrators in rural areas play fast and loose with rules because it suited their political whims, so I too am inclined to say let the legal process play out. The judge sounds he's a level-headed jurist who will handle the case fairly. It's certainly possible that Sullivan is acting in an entitled manner, but I don't think this going to make or break her career. Med schools are going to evaluate her cumulative academic record. If she has otherwise sterling credentials in another 4-5 years, this will be a small blip on the radar. OTOH, if she's a jerk to everyone, that will be clear in other ways.

[Vkw10]

Got curious, since I'm currently a Texas resident, and looked for information on the valedictorian scholarship. According to https://tea.texas.gov/academics/graduation-information/highest-ranking-graduate, the scholarship is actually for the highest ranking graduate as determined by local policy, not the valedictorian. The Q&A suggests some schools may limit valedictorian to students who've been at the school for four years. I suspect course weighting, or lack thereof, may also play a role. Either way, due process requires exhausting administrative remedies, such as appeals to school board, before going to court.