CHE article: Rape Procedures

[spork]

A few years ago I was involved in a Title IX process, on behalf of a male student accused of sexual assault, at his invitation -- he was allowed to include a . . . ? I don't know what the term is. I was prohibited from speaking during any of the meetings, even to the student I was supposed to be supporting, given the rules. The student was prohibited from having an attorney present. Much of the information collected by the university's Title IX staff was from third parties who were friends of the student making the accusation and who lacked direct knowledge of the alleged event -- they did not witness it and were not in the vicinity. At one point these individuals were described as "character witnesses."

Maybe Title IX processes have changed since then, but what I saw was a kangaroo court. It was obvious that the main concerns of the university were avoiding bad publicity, maximizing tuition revenue, and avoiding scrutiny by federal regulators.

Of course alcohol consumption was involved in the incident. These situations make me sympathetic to zero tolerance policies -- "if you're too immature to responsibly consume a substance that will impair your ability to give consent, then you're too immature for college, and you're both expelled. Bye." 

[marshwiggle]

The Smallcleanrat example, which is similar to those I have heard before in Title IX training, do show that the situations can be complicated. From this example one could probably conclude that many married couples in the world have raped each other more than a few times. I am actually saying that somewhat facetiously, but whether or not they (or anyone else) really has raped anyone else in a similar situation is going to depend on the exact circumstances most likely.

This is an important point. There is a whole industry of marriage counsellors who help couples sort out many issues including sex. If people in committed, long term relationships still need professional help in negotiating sex, it's ridiculous to assume that inexperienced, young, intoxicated strangers are going to be able to figure it out after some sort of training session during orientation.

The biggest factor by far is the abuse of alcohol. Reduce or eliminate that and you greatly reduce all of the problems in view here.

[Ruralguy]

I certainly agree that alcohol, and to a lesser extent, other drugs, are a major factor in all of the cases I've heard of. However, my campus is particularly poor at controlling alcohol.

As for Spork's post. Things have changed twice over on the last 10 years.

The major recent changes:

1. Both respondent and complainant are allowed to be accompanied by a counselor, who can be any adult. For the respondent, its almost always an attorney these days. If a  either party wants a counselor, and they don't have their own, the Title IX office supplies someone knowledgeable of the Title IX process (in my school, its usually a faculty Title IX Committee member).

2. Either party can be directly cross-examined. This is highly controversial, but was added in by DeVos.

Also there are various restrictions on who the college can bring up on charges and under what conditions. I think there's much more limitation on charging students involved in off campus non-official events.

There's more, but those are the biggies.

Its also my impression  that over the years, more schools have come into compliance, so less kangaroo-ing than 5 or 10 years ago, but you'd probably have to ask someone at ATIXA or Dept. of Ed. for the details.

My school has about 1000 students and we probably have at most 5 cases brought to hearing every year and a few more that get investigated but aren't brought to hearing. Probably only 1 or 2 lead to someone being found "responsible."
We've had fewer cases under the stricter rules, but keep in mind this year was the COVID year as well.

[apl68]

The Smallcleanrat example, which is similar to those I have heard before in Title IX training, do show that the situations can be complicated. From this example one could probably conclude that many married couples in the world have raped each other more than a few times. I am actually saying that somewhat facetiously, but whether or not they (or anyone else) really has raped anyone else in a similar situation is going to depend on the exact circumstances most likely.

This is an important point. There is a whole industry of marriage counsellors who help couples sort out many issues including sex. If people in committed, long term relationships still need professional help in negotiating sex, it's ridiculous to assume that inexperienced, young, intoxicated strangers are going to be able to figure it out after some sort of training session during orientation.

The biggest factor by far is the abuse of alcohol. Reduce or eliminate that and you greatly reduce all of the problems in view here.

Which is why Alma Mater continues after all these years to maintain a program of dry campus, no frat houses, and no co-ed dorms.  What you do off-campus is presumably both your business AND the police's.

Alcohol and other recreational drugs have always struck me as being like the game of Thermonuclear War.  The only winning move is to never start playing.

[mahagonny]

Which is why Alma Mater continues after all these years to maintain a program of dry campus, no frat houses, and no co-ed dorms.  What you do off-campus is presumably both your business AND the police's.

Alcohol and other recreational drugs have always struck me as being like the game of Thermonuclear War.  The only winning move is to never start playing.

I suspect the market will only support a few of these.

[Ruralguy]

My apologies: The TIX term for someone accompanying a respondent or complainant is *advisor* (not *counselor*).

[Caracal]

Alcohol and other recreational drugs have always struck me as being like the game of Thermonuclear War.  The only winning move is to never start playing.

No, not really. Not for most people anyway. Unless you're talking about people with alcoholism, it isn't like you start drinking a beer and go down a path you can't turn back from. Even if you're talking about drinking enough to get drunk, there's a big difference between being sort of a mess, and black out drunk and incapable of making reasonable choices.

When I was in college, prohibitions on alcohol mostly encouraged riskier and less responsible drinking. Because you couldn't drink in public spaces, everyone would drink a lot really quickly in dorm rooms and then wander down to the student union to hang out. It made it hard to regulate how much you drunk and easy to miscalculate and go over the edge. If drinking is integrated into what people are doing, rather than seen as a necessary prelude to it, they usually drink less and more slowly.

[dismalist]

Alcohol and other recreational drugs have always struck me as being like the game of Thermonuclear War.  The only winning move is to never start playing.

No, not really. Not for most people anyway. Unless you're talking about people with alcoholism, it isn't like you start drinking a beer and go down a path you can't turn back from. Even if you're talking about drinking enough to get drunk, there's a big difference between being sort of a mess and black out drunk and incapable of making reasonable choices.

When I was in college, prohibitions on alcohol mostly encouraged riskier and less responsible drinking. Because you couldn't drink in public spaces, everyone would drink a lot really quickly in dorm rooms and then wander down to the student union to hang out. It made it hard to regulate how much you drunk and easy to miscalculate and go over the edge. If drinking is integrated into what people are doing, rather than seen as a necessary prelude to it, they usually drink less and more slowly.

Precisely!

The American culprit is likely the drinking age. In Germany t'is 16 for beer and wine, 14 if adult guardians are present. There is no legal drinking age in Italy in the sense that a young person of any age can legally consume alcohol, but a person must be 16 years old in order to be served alcohol in a restaurant or a bar. France has recently gone illiberal, raising the drinking age to 18. However, that's largely ignored.

Casual observation in all three countries supports the view that boys and girls get to know each other in a far more civilized way in those countries than in the United States. There is no need to get oneself drunk before the cops come, because the cops don't come.

[Ruralguy]

I don't think anyone at my college seriously is worried about the cops coming, until of course someone gets killed in a drunk driving "accident," which is now happening, seemingly, every year. I am not sure drinking age will change much, at least not in my region, but it might be worth a shot. What is certain is that it is a huge factor in sexual assault, especially those that hinge on questions of consent.

[dismalist]

I don't think anyone at my college seriously is worried about the cops coming, until of course someone gets killed in a drunk driving "accident," which is now happening, seemingly, every year. I am not sure drinking age will change much, at least not in my region, but it might be worth a shot. What is certain is that it is a huge factor in sexual assault, especially those that hinge on questions of consent.

I'm also thinking of rape and sexual assault OUTSIDE of college settings.

US colleges are likely some of the safest places on earth.

[Diogenes]

I'm also thinking of rape and sexual assault OUTSIDE of college settings.

US colleges are likely some of the safest places on earth.

Source? Or just speculation?

[marshwiggle]

I'm also thinking of rape and sexual assault OUTSIDE of college settings.

US colleges are likely some of the safest places on earth.

Source? Or just speculation?

From the Department of Justice:

For the period 1995–2013, females ages 18 to 24 not enrolled
in a post-secondary school were 1.2 times more likely to
experience rape and sexual assault victimization (7.6 per
1,000), compared to students in the same age range (6.1 per
1,000) (table 1). Nonstudents (65,700) also accounted for
more than double the number of rape and sexual assault
victimizations as students (31,300).
The rate of completed rape for nonstudents (3.1 per 1,000)
was 1.5 times higher than for students (2.0 per 1,000).
However, there was no significant difference in the rates
of female students and nonstudents who experienced
attempted rape or other sexual assault. This suggests that
differences in the rates of completed rape largely accounted
for differences in the overall rates of rape and sexual assault
between students and nonstudents.

And the rate of 7.6 per thousand is 0.8%. Not the ridiculous "1 in 5" that gets bandied about by activists.

Here's more about where the "1 in 5" number came from.

[Ruralguy]

Though it would be good to have more precise number, we can be pretty sure that the number of sexual assaults of any kind are higher than the number reported to any authority (police, TIX office, DoS Office, etc.). I have no doubt that a significant number of women, and some men, have experienced assault, broadly defined (and probably not as low as we might hope for narrowly defined rape). I can't speak to the accuracy of any particular quoted number.

[marshwiggle]

Though it would be good to have more precise number, we can be pretty sure that the number of sexual assaults of any kind are higher than the number reported to any authority (police, TIX office, DoS Office, etc.). I have no doubt that a significant number of women, and some men, have experienced assault, broadly defined (and probably not as low as we might hope for narrowly defined rape). I can't speak to the accuracy of any particular quoted number.

Even still, there's no obvious reason that the underreporting would be so much greater on campus that it would  negate the results that assaults are less likely on campus than in general.

[dismalist]

Though it would be good to have more precise number, we can be pretty sure that the number of sexual assaults of any kind are higher than the number reported to any authority (police, TIX office, DoS Office, etc.). I have no doubt that a significant number of women, and some men, have experienced assault, broadly defined (and probably not as low as we might hope for narrowly defined rape). I can't speak to the accuracy of any particular quoted number.

Aaah, but the DoJ report Marshwiggle linked to is a survey. Thus, it catches, and is intended to catch, crimes reported to the police and those not reported to the police. It's a good set of numbers for crime, not something else.

Anyway, if things were only half as serious as the 1-in-5 number, women would not go to college.