I don't want to go back to the classroom

[downer]

I'm teaching a few classes in the classroom this fall and I am having trouble generating enthusiasm for it.

Onlne asynchronous teaching avoids so many of the problems of classrooms.
-- students being late
-- students missing tests
-- all the time getting to and from the school
-- students who don't contribute to class discussion

I was just putting together a fall syllabus and I found that I'd be missing out 3 days of content compared to my online class. Obviously I could cram the material in, but I don't think it would work.

I've got so comfortable with online teaching that most of the idea of being in a classroom feels like an exercise in inefficiency.

Maybe when I see those eager young faces I will be glad to be there. Hah!

It is also clear that if there's any point in being in a classroom*, it is due to the social nature of the experience. That means that the learning outcomes should be explicit about that social element, and really classroom and online teaching are oriented to different skill sets. All my students will be doing presentations -- at least in the classes where I am confident that it won't be a total waste of class time.




*aside from getting students to live in the dorms and use the food services to generate revenue for the college.

[mamselle]

Totally different set-up, but I'm also seeing more efficiencies teaching my private music students online.

In the past I've gone to their homes, since I don't maintain a studio per se. I've always enjoyed that, and the connections made thereby may be what has helped them stick with the program this past year, but I figure I save about three hours a day running around by staying home and teaching online.

And as I've said in the past, the theory classes could never have happened in-person, because there was no way to get students in the same place at the same time--I'll be keeping that (and maybe adding some other things to it) no matter what.

No-one's forcing a decision, so for the moment, it's just a theoretical question, but at some point I'll have to figure it out.

But as I've heard several folks say, if there's been a silver lining to the past year's events, this discovery may be one of them.

M. 

[marshwiggle]

This other thread discussed a lot of related sentiments.

[mahagonny]

I don't want to, but then, perhaps paradoxically, the ability to make myself do things I don't want to do is where my self respect comes from. So I am looking forward to packing my shit, starting the car, and driving in, because it sucks, and that's why I am a fine person.

One of the nice things about remote education is not running into other faculty I don't want to see. But sometimes they surprise you, favorably.

[Aster]

Yes, teaching fully online is very popular with professors who wish to spend less time with students. Many of my colleagues at Big Urban College have developed this into a fine science, whereby their course is nothing but a canned automaton process that is left running on cruise control for the whole semester. The differences between their courses vs. those offered at some of our neighboring for-profit diploma mills are so minor that I've identified a few of my colleagues that consistently moonlight at the for-profit diploma mills by doing little more than porting over their automaton courses to the other institution's LMS and clicking "activate".

If one is wishing to be "efficient" by finding the shortest route to completing one's weekly teaching duties, then yes, fully online courses are the answer.

[downer]

If one is wishing to be "efficient" by finding the shortest route to completing one's weekly teaching duties, then yes, fully online courses are the answer.

Yes, that is very much my goal. I take those duties seriously and want students to learn. But I don't see any point in favoring inefficiency.

I'm sure that there are benefits to in-person learning for some skills. It isn't clear to me that those are the skills that students go to school to learn though. Presumably lab-work.

Some students sometimes say that they are "hands-on" learners, which always makes me laugh. "Hands on what?" I want to ask.

This other thread discussed a lot of related sentiments.

I was away that week. Can I do a make up?

[Ruralguy]

Efficiency for the professor probably doesn't tightly correlate with student learning, so there's that. Dealing with post teen petulance is just part of the job. There's  also an occasional diamond in the rough.
Not that online is all bad, but relying on it so that you don't have to face students is probably not the best reason, though on a bad day, I'd sympathize for sure! 

[marshwiggle]

If one is wishing to be "efficient" by finding the shortest route to completing one's weekly teaching duties, then yes, fully online courses are the answer.

Yes, that is very much my goal. I take those duties seriously and want students to learn. But I don't see any point in favoring inefficiency.

I'm sure that there are benefits to in-person learning for some skills. It isn't clear to me that those are the skills that students go to school to learn though. Presumably lab-work.

That's interesting. Since I am responsible for several labs, and the courses I teach have a big lab component, one of the benefits I saw in remote teaching was that students would spend more time trying to figure things out on their own because of the delay of waiting for feedback versus just asking the *TA or instructor in person.

There are lots of labs where equipment, safety, etc. requirements need all the infrastructure of in-person operation, but for ones that don't , I'd like to know how common my experience was.

(* or lab partner)

[Ruralguy]

Then again...there might be a day when we can direct students through labs with physical equipment via the internet, but boy, that is the definition of inefficiency for labs. Then again, I could see it being necessary.
The most direct correlate I can think of would be the aforementioned music lessons. They can work. In some ways, from personal experience, they are better ( I can go over someone's guitar picking video a thousand times). But we're social animals, even the introverts, and teaching/learning in person is going to be necessary or at least critical, for many of us.

[downer]

I definitely agree we are social animals. Most people find it difficult to motivate themselves to get exercise outside of a social context. But they can enjoy a game of volleyball or soccer.

But most college teaching is not social in the classroom. It's a sort of "parallel play" with very little interaction between students. Hence my thought that if we are going to make education social, we should do it wholeheartedly.

At the schools I teach at, the students tend to drive to campus, come to class, and then drive home again. It seems rare for them to actually make friends with other students. For all the talk, it is a long way from being a community.

[marshwiggle]

Then again...there might be a day when we can direct students through labs with physical equipment via the internet, but boy, that is the definition of inefficiency for labs. Then again, I could see it being necessary.

A more efficient system for labs could be to have intensive "lab semesters" (or shorter time periods). for instance, instead of having a 2 or 3 hour lab once a week for 12 weeks for a course, you could have all of those labs for one course in one or two weeks as a full-time study. There would be issues around limited time for receiving feedback, but there would advantages of an immersive experience.

It would also mean that students would only have to be on campus for a few weeks, instead of the whole term, for those lab-intensive experiences.

[ciao_yall]

Teaching online is all the boring stuff (grading, reporting) and none of the fun stuff (hanging out with students, talking about stuff, hearing their questions.)

At our college the numbers did something strange. The percentage of A's and F/W's went way up, while the percentage of B, C and D dropped to almost nothing.

What this suggests is that students who were going to do well, anyway, did so and got A's. The ones who hit a snag dropped instead of sticking with it. Maybe they didn't feel connected to the instructor, their other students, weren't sure how to get caught up, didn't have the whatever-it-is to stay current without the structure of "I have to be in a Place at a Time every week Or Else."

I hate teaching online but I think our administration loves it because they don't have to deal with pesky students or faculty making them get their heads out from up their warm cozy behinds.

[downer]

Teaching online is all the boring stuff (grading, reporting) and none of the fun stuff (hanging out with students, talking about stuff, hearing their questions.)

I never hang out with students. I thought that was prohibited these days. Everyone turns up for class and leaves after.

I'm not sure what stuff you mean, but we talk about the course material and I hear their questions all the time in online courses. They are actually more social online than they are in the classroom, opening up more, talking about their lives and their jobs.

[marshwiggle]

Teaching online is all the boring stuff (grading, reporting) and none of the fun stuff (hanging out with students, talking about stuff, hearing their questions.)

I never hang out with students. I thought that was prohibited these days. Everyone turns up for class and leaves after.

I'm not sure what stuff you mean, but we talk about the course material and I hear their questions all the time in online courses. They are actually more social online than they are in the classroom, opening up more, talking about their lives and their jobs.

And the grading is way easier online, without interruptions, and without the temptation to look at something again (because it's a physical document sitting on the desk). I'm going to go with online submission of documents permanently after this for that reason.

Related to what Downer said, some of the keener students online will go beyond what the course requires because they're interested, and will communicate about that. The people who are doing absolutely fine and don't communicate are probably quite happy about doing things on their own terms. The ones who are unhappy are the ones that want loads of hand-holding.

[ciao_yall]

Teaching online is all the boring stuff (grading, reporting) and none of the fun stuff (hanging out with students, talking about stuff, hearing their questions.)

I never hang out with students. I thought that was prohibited these days. Everyone turns up for class and leaves after.

I'm not sure what stuff you mean, but we talk about the course material and I hear their questions all the time in online courses. They are actually more social online than they are in the classroom, opening up more, talking about their lives and their jobs.

I mean when we get into a group discussion about some current event related to the subject. Often I put them in small groups and then we debrief the activity. I can also call on ones who I can see seem to want to say something but are a bit too shy to raise their hands.

Students often help each other - the strong ones are good role models for the weaker ones, or they give them advice on how to handle a problem in the class or at the college. Sometimes the generally "weaker" students help the "stronger" ones as well. So the stronger ones learn to listen to anyone around them who might have something to say.

And, they come before or after class and take advantage of the casual moments to ask me a question, share a concern, maybe humanize me a bit so they feel better about the class.

Finally, I really don't know what they look like so I never run into them around town, on the train, etc where we have those impromptu counseling sessions. They are old enough to realize I "exist" outside of the college and do things like buy groceries and go to the gym.