Inclusive high school math?

[ergative]

I took grade 9 math in Ontario, so I can see why they are doing this.  I well remember questions like:

Billy wants to make $5 selling apples.  He sells apples to his white customers for 20¢ each and he sells apples to his BIPOC customers for 40¢ apiece.  If Billy sells 13 apples to his white customers, how many apples must he sell to his BIPOC customers to reach his $5 goal?

Yup  Math be racist as hell.

Seems like not all posters understand that this is meant ironically.

Who knows?

Well, since the term "BIPOC" only appeared in the last couple of years, secundum_artem is either about 17 years old, or has been taking remedial grade 9 math if the  post was not made in jest.

Or secundum_artem doesn't remember the exact wording of word problems from high school math classes and so uses terms that are common in modern discourse for the sake of simplicity.

[marshwiggle]

I took grade 9 math in Ontario, so I can see why they are doing this.  I well remember questions like:

Billy wants to make $5 selling apples.  He sells apples to his white customers for 20¢ each and he sells apples to his BIPOC customers for 40¢ apiece.  If Billy sells 13 apples to his white customers, how many apples must he sell to his BIPOC customers to reach his $5 goal?

Yup  Math be racist as hell.

Seems like not all posters understand that this is meant ironically.

Who knows?

Well, since the term "BIPOC" only appeared in the last couple of years, secundum_artem is either about 17 years old, or has been taking remedial grade 9 math if the  post was not made in jest.

Or secundum_artem doesn't remember the exact wording of word problems from high school math classes and so uses terms that are common in modern discourse for the sake of simplicity.

The idea that in any western country *within the past 50 years that it would be acceptable to assume it was OK to treat people differently based on the colour of their skin, and to the point of having it incidental to a math problem, is laughable.


*Of course it wouldn't be surprising if some from the left now would advocate just that, such as businesses charging men more than women to "correct" the wage gap.

[jimbogumbo]

marshwiggle is right about the last 50 years and exams, and as a caveat I'll admit to knowing nothing about Ontario's initiative. I DO know there are still some serious issues to address.

Jo Boaler is mentioned prominently in the California (and other state) initiatives. She is an excellent researcher, and the source of a bunch of good classroom material for teachers which are not explicitly connected to race and gender, but rather having high expectations for students and ways to help all students become more mathematically proficient.

For anyone who is serious about the topic, here is a quick synopsis of some studies which indicate how race and gender can affect performance in math: https://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype

[ergative]

All sides have wackos. Some sides are more subject to Poe's law than others.

[secundem_artem]

Good lord, some people DO believe everything they read on the interwebz.

I used the term BIPOC so as not to use a term that would be potentially offensive to some of our more delicate forumites.  I originally wanted to use a question about sl@ve$ selling for $85 dollars each but went with apples and BIPOC so nobody's head would explode.

Ironic - totally ironic. 

I used to think I was a liberal.  Now I wonder.

[marshwiggle]

Good lord, some people DO believe everything they read on the interwebz.

I used the term BIPOC so as not to use a term that would be potentially offensive to some of our more delicate forumites.  I originally wanted to use a question about sl@ve$ selling for $85 dollars each but went with apples and BIPOC so nobody's head would explode.

Ironic - totally ironic. 

I used to think I was a liberal.  Now I wonder.

It's easy now; there are only two categories - progressive and alt-right. (Alternatively, "anti-racist" or "fascist"). No need to wonder at all. ( A person's gender can be non-binary or anything at all, but their ideology cannot. Welcome to the wokiverse.)

[dismalist]

Good lord, some people DO believe everything they read on the interwebz.

I used the term BIPOC so as not to use a term that would be potentially offensive to some of our more delicate forumites.  I originally wanted to use a question about sl@ve$ selling for $85 dollars each but went with apples and BIPOC so nobody's head would explode.

Ironic - totally ironic. 

I used to think I was a liberal.  Now I wonder.

It's easy now; there are only two categories - progressive and alt-right. (Alternatively, "anti-racist" or "fascist"). No need to wonder at all. ( A person's gender can be non-binary or anything at all, but their ideology cannot. Welcome to the wokiverse.)

Thomas Sowell writes, "If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules ... that would have gotten you labeled a radical 50 years ago, a liberal 25 years ago, and a racist today."

[Parasaurolophus]

It's easy now; there are only two categories - strawman and alt-right.

FTFY.


Ontario was the last province to still have math streaming. Its elimination is a good thing. So far, the most I can see about decolonial stuff (thanks to dismalist's link and a CBC article) is just teaching students a little about the history of mathematical developments and--primarily--fostering more inclusive pedagogical practices which are senstitive to the kinds of challenges some children might face in learning mathematics. There's that, plus intergrating mathematics with what they're learning elsewhere (commonplace in other provinces) and teaching them to code.

None of that seems calamitous, or worth getting all up in arms about. Sure, there are buzzwords you guys loathe, but what are the substantive changes which are so bad?

Do also bear in mind that the Canadian education system is currently one of the finest in the world, and pretty much unique in that there are no significant racial, class, immigration status, or other disparities between students in the system (or systems, since each province has its own) (with the partial exception of Indigenous children on reserve, but that's another story). We're not broken like US is.

In other words, the kids are alright.

[mahagonny]

marshwiggle is right about the last 50 years and exams, and as a caveat I'll admit to knowing nothing about Ontario's initiative. I DO know there are still some serious issues to address.

Jo Boaler is mentioned prominently in the California (and other state) initiatives. She is an excellent researcher, and the source of a bunch of good classroom material for teachers which are not explicitly connected to race and gender, but rather having high expectations for students and ways to help all students become more mathematically proficient.

For anyone who is serious about the topic, here is a quick synopsis of some studies which indicate how race and gender can affect performance in math: https://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype

But the question still persists: how can you make math easier and still have it be math? (You can't) We learned about this crisis of confidence thing before around our kindergarten years. It was a book called 'The Little Engine That Could.' There is no one of any color or any gender who is immune to the crisis of confidence. It has to be faced by the individual.

[ergative]

Good lord, some people DO believe everything they read on the interwebz.

I used the term BIPOC so as not to use a term that would be potentially offensive to some of our more delicate forumites.  I originally wanted to use a question about sl@ve$ selling for $85 dollars each but went with apples and BIPOC so nobody's head would explode.

Ironic - totally ironic. 

I used to think I was a liberal.  Now I wonder.

Yes, I confess it: I did believe you were being unironic. You know why? Because your example is not too extreme to be real. Here is something from Snopes confirming that this sort of thing actually does happen, with math tests no less. The linked case is particularly instructive, because although the math test was intended as a joke, teachers decided that it was fine and dandy adopt it as part of their curriculum in classrooms across the US.

Here's another example, a case of math homework that says "Each tree had 56 oranges. If eight slaves pick them equally, then how much would each slave pick?" and "If Frederick got two beatings per day, how many beatings did he get in one week?" These examples are examples of the sort that you rejected as being too extreme for satire here, and yet, if we are to believe this link (which includes video interviews and certainly doesn't seem like 'satire' to me), it actually happened.

How can you blame us for believing that your experience was part of this sort of thing?

It's true that we should not jump to believe every crazy thing we hear, because satire exists. But on the other hand, disbelieving things because they are too wacky to be serious is how we got Trump as president. It's tough to balance our credulity against recognizing genuinely extreme reality vs. disbelieving ironically extreme satire. But we're trying. I'm glad that students in your school were not subjected to the sort of math test you describe. But other students in other schools were. So I'm not going to tsk and shake my head at liberal panic over racist math curriculum, because it exists, and is a problem.

Maybe the measures that prompted this thread are not the best way to go about fixing the problem. But that does not mean there is no problem to be fixed.

[spork]

It's easy now; there are only two categories - strawman and alt-right.

FTFY.


Ontario was the last province to still have math streaming. Its elimination is a good thing. So far, the most I can see about decolonial stuff (thanks to dismalist's link and a CBC article) is just teaching students a little about the history of mathematical developments and--primarily--fostering more inclusive pedagogical practices which are senstitive to the kinds of challenges some children might face in learning mathematics. There's that, plus intergrating mathematics with what they're learning elsewhere (commonplace in other provinces) and teaching them to code.

None of that seems calamitous, or worth getting all up in arms about. Sure, there are buzzwords you guys loathe, but what are the substantive changes which are so bad?

Do also bear in mind that the Canadian education system is currently one of the finest in the world, and pretty much unique in that there are no significant racial, class, immigration status, or other disparities between students in the system (or systems, since each province has its own) (with the partial exception of Indigenous children on reserve, but that's another story). We're not broken like US is.

In other words, the kids are alright.

Serious, non-ironic question: do you know of any research done on Canadian schoolchildren about stereotype threat?

As for the USA, I think it's time to tell our non-immigrant children that fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

[marshwiggle]

Good lord, some people DO believe everything they read on the interwebz.

I used the term BIPOC so as not to use a term that would be potentially offensive to some of our more delicate forumites.  I originally wanted to use a question about sl@ve$ selling for $85 dollars each but went with apples and BIPOC so nobody's head would explode.

Ironic - totally ironic. 

I used to think I was a liberal.  Now I wonder.

Yes, I confess it: I did believe you were being unironic. You know why? Because your example is not too extreme to be real. Here is something from Snopes confirming that this sort of thing actually does happen, with math tests no less. The linked case is particularly instructive, because although the math test was intended as a joke, teachers decided that it was fine and dandy adopt it as part of their curriculum in classrooms across the US.

That was originally created as a joke, and some teacher(s) decided to use it. It wasn't produced or approved by any government agency.

Here's another example, a case of math homework that says "Each tree had 56 oranges. If eight slaves pick them equally, then how much would each slave pick?" and "If Frederick got two beatings per day, how many beatings did he get in one week?" These examples are examples of the sort that you rejected as being too extreme for satire here, and yet, if we are to believe this link (which includes video interviews and certainly doesn't seem like 'satire' to me), it actually happened.

From the article :

Gwinnett County School District spokeswoman Sloan Roach told WSBT that the teachers, who was not identified, was attempting a "cross-curricular activity," in which social studies topics would be woven into math assignments.

Whether  it was intended to be provocative or not, it seems it was produced as a fulfillment of this idea of introducing discussions about social issues into every subject. (Instead of math problems being just about math.)

And it also wasn't approved by any government agency. Nothing like that would have been part of any approved curriculum anywhere in the past several decades, if ever.

[ergative]

I don't understand why it's relevant whether or not a government agency approved these terrible decisions.  I'm not claiming they're part of a curriculum or anything. Secundem_artem gave an ironic example of racist math. We believed it, and were mocked. I gave these examples as a way of showing that it wasn't unreasonable for us to believe that these examples might be real.

[marshwiggle]

I don't understand why it's relevant whether or not a government agency approved these terrible decisions.  I'm not claiming they're part of a curriculum or anything. Secundem_artem gave an ironic example of racist math. We believed it, and were mocked. I gave these examples as a way of showing that it wasn't unreasonable for us to believe that these examples might be real.

The disagreements here, and in society in general, are not primarily between progressives and white supremacists (who are a tiny, if vocal, minority.) They're between the progressives and the large part of the population who don't think introducing identity politics into everything helps.

The pedagogical techniques that are most effective in math are probably the same in Sweden, Singapore, and Sudan. Do kids in India need to study the history of the caste system in math class in order to learn math? Math is a skill, and the most important thing is practice. More practice is the way to better skills, and the more time devoted to practice the better. Any time spent on social philosophy detracts from that. If you want to remind teachers to use "Jamal" instead of "Jim" in your word problems, fine, but that doesn't require a whole "decolonized" curriculum (whatever that would be).

And with those examples like the gang-related math questions? My guess is that they've been used by math teachers trying to get their disengaged students interested, and a teacher with a good rappoort with students may even have gotten laughs from some of those very students because of it. Humour is context-sensitive; what may be funny in one context may not in another, and whether something was offensive to the students in the room can't be determined without talking to them.

[jimbogumbo]

I don't understand why it's relevant whether or not a government agency approved these terrible decisions.  I'm not claiming they're part of a curriculum or anything. Secundem_artem gave an ironic example of racist math. We believed it, and were mocked. I gave these examples as a way of showing that it wasn't unreasonable for us to believe that these examples might be real.

The disagreements here, and in society in general, are not primarily between progressives and white supremacists (who are a tiny, if vocal, minority.) They're between the progressives and the large part of the population who don't think introducing identity politics into everything helps.

The pedagogical techniques that are most effective in math are probably the same in Sweden, Singapore, and Sudan. Do kids in India need to study the history of the caste system in math class in order to learn math? Math is a skill, and the most important thing is practice. More practice is the way to better skills, and the more time devoted to practice the better. Any time spent on social philosophy detracts from that. If you want to remind teachers to use "Jamal" instead of "Jim" in your word problems, fine, but that doesn't require a whole "decolonized" curriculum (whatever that would be).

And with those examples like the gang-related math questions? My guess is that they've been used by math teachers trying to get their disengaged students interested, and a teacher with a good rappoort with students may even have gotten laughs from some of those very students because of it. Humour is context-sensitive; what may be funny in one context may not in another, and whether something was offensive to the students in the room can't be determined without talking to them.

You left out Japan and the Netherlands.

The reference I made above to Jo Boaler (and many of us who work in the field) is NOT about making math easier. To the contrary, if you emulate Japan (which we do in a US way) it makes math both harder and more enjoyable. And, I'll state categorically more practice if it's badly designed practice (look in any US textbook) is counterproductive.

Reference (yes, I know these were wealthy districts): https://www.educationworld.com/a_curr/curr251.shtml