helping doc students to progress

[jerseyjay]

I am sure it depends on where you are and what field you are in.

This thread is about problematic grad students. But I think there is another type of student, who make a large percentage of grad students (and most of those I have met in my years as a student and professor). These are people who enroll in a PhD program and somewhere along the line (usually in the first two years) decide that they don't want to continue. Sometimes it is because the "opportunity cost" of doing a PhD is greater than actually getting on with their life. Sometimes it is because they don't see any jobs, or realize that having a PhD will only marginally improve their job chances. Sometimes it is because they find academia not to their liking. Often they leave with a "terminal masters" or something like that.

I know more than 20 people who left graduate studies in this way. Few, if any, of them feel bad about their decision. Many were studying at very prestigious places (including the Ivy League). And those who stopped are not less intelligent than those whose continued. In fact, I know many more people who started a doctoral program than have finished. And certainly way more people who started than decided to stop than those who got a tenure-track job.

I don't think this is a problem. The problem is when a huge amount of resources (theirs and the school's) has been sunk in their graduate study before they realize they won't finish. Or if they want to finish, and cannot.

In terms of the original topic, I think part of an advisor's job is to be able to help students make sure they really want to finish, and to smooth out their leaving if they decide they don't want to continue. But I cannot imagine all of your students fall in this category.

[Caracal]

I am sure it depends on where you are and what field you are in.

This thread is about problematic grad students. But I think there is another type of student, who make a large percentage of grad students (and most of those I have met in my years as a student and professor). These are people who enroll in a PhD program and somewhere along the line (usually in the first two years) decide that they don't want to continue. Sometimes it is because the "opportunity cost" of doing a PhD is greater than actually getting on with their life. Sometimes it is because they don't see any jobs, or realize that having a PhD will only marginally improve their job chances. Sometimes it is because they find academia not to their liking. Often they leave with a "terminal masters" or something like that.

I know more than 20 people who left graduate studies in this way. Few, if any, of them feel bad about their decision. Many were studying at very prestigious places (including the Ivy League). And those who stopped are not less intelligent than those whose continued. In fact, I know many more people who started a doctoral program than have finished. And certainly way more people who started than decided to stop than those who got a tenure-track job.

I don't think this is a problem. The problem is when a huge amount of resources (theirs and the school's) has been sunk in their graduate study before they realize they won't finish. Or if they want to finish, and cannot.

In terms of the original topic, I think part of an advisor's job is to be able to help students make sure they really want to finish, and to smooth out their leaving if they decide they don't want to continue. But I cannot imagine all of your students fall in this category.

Yeah, I knew some of those people too and most of them seemed pretty happy with their decision. It's incredibly hard to finish a dissertation when you really do want to do it, it is almost impossible when you don't. One of the cultural problems with academia and grad school is that it tends to stigmatize those decisions. There's usually nothing malicious about it. Advisors want their students to complete their studies and write a dissertation. But, that needs to be balanced with an understanding that sometimes moving on can be a good decision.

The quit lit boom seems to have died down, but one of the things I noticed about it was how fully a lot of the quit lit writers had really internalized the sense of shame and stigmatization around leaving grad school. There was all this rhetoric about wasted years of life and the lifelong scars of going to grad school. That doesn't leave much room for what Jersey is talking about-people who go to grad school for a few years and then decide that it isn't a path they want to pursue anymore and do something else.

But, yes, to return to the original topic, I agree that it seems unlikely all of your students can't hack it-which is why I think its important to make sure your expectations are reasonable and in line with those of other faculty.