helping doc students to progress

[jerseyjay]

Have you spoken to your colleagues to see if this their experience, and if so, how they handle it? That is, this might just be normal for grad students at your school. (It might also be useful to find out what the completion rate in your department.)

In my personal experience as a grad student in history, the life of a grad student goes in fits and starts. I mean, I was always "working" on the dissertation, in the sense that I was reading secondary literature and looking at primary sources. I tend to write as I go along, so that my drafts are always in the state of being written. However, others I know wait longer to start writing, and then write in more concentrated times.

It might be worth it to talk to your students about what methods they are employing.

Another thing that helps is if there some kind of external pressure--a seminar as has been mentioned upthread, but also informal writing groups of students. You might also encourage students to present at conferences, which might force them to write things up in time.

[Mobius]

It wasn't where I went across humanities and social sciences.

[Puget]

It really sounds like you're doing everything you can! Have you tried asking directly what their barriers are to making progress?

With my grad students, I've used a book called The Writing Workshop by Barbara Sarnecka (which she has made freely available: https://osf.io/n8pc3/). It's aimed at the sciences, but might be helpful for yours too as a lot of it is about productivity. The chapter that we refer to most often is on overcoming writing resistance. She uses some really good metaphors and humor (there is a friendly resistance monster that thinks it needs to protect you from writing), and has gotten them to talk openly and without shame about writing resistance and brainstorm how to overcome it.

At some point, they may need some tough talk about timelines and how their funding *will* end whether they are done or not. They are grown ups, and ultimately they need to take responsibility for their own progress.

[bluefooted]

With my grad students, I've used a book called The Writing Workshop by Barbara Sarnecka (which she has made freely available: https://osf.io/n8pc3/).

This is a great resource!  Thanks for this share!  I have used NCFDD materials and it's really helped me.

[jerseyjay]

It really sounds like you're doing everything you can! Have you tried asking directly what their barriers are to making progress?

[...]

At some point, they may need some tough talk about timelines and how their funding *will* end whether they are done or not. They are grown ups, and ultimately they need to take responsibility for their own progress.

Both of these are good points, but they are separate points. I am in favor of making things in graduate school as transparent as possible, because oftentimes there are assumptions that people take for granted (like, don't read all of all the books you are assigned) but that some people do not know. Thus, it is possible that they have a different perspective on the timeline than you do. They might not think they are behind, because they have five/six years to work on a dissertation and, after all, they've written 30-page papers in a month, so surely they can write a 300-page dissertation in the last year or two. Without freaking them out, you should explain that they need to be making constant progress on the dissertation, not just writing it up at the end. This is to say, they might not even be aware that their situation is problematic.

On the other hand, they might already know this, but might be overwhelmed by the prospect of writing a 300-page dissertation, not where to start, feel ignorant of the literature, etc., etc. In which case you can discuss particular strategies.

Since you are dealing with several students, my guess is it is mix of both, with the students telling each other that since nobody else has done much, they cannot really be doing poorly.

[Vkw10]

I schedule a monthly check-in with each student. I also schedule several hours a week for "dissertation conferences", which I explain to my students is time I've reserved for reading drafts and extra meetings with dissertation students, as needed. Some students often schedule conferences, while others might send me a draft between our monthly check-ins.

At the beginning of the process, we set up a multi-year plan, working backwards from when funding ends, because seeing the process broken down into chunks helps some students. Setting up the plan also gives me a chance to point out some realities, like expecting slow responses during exams, and needing to book defense a month in advance. During our monthly check-in, I always ask students if they've checked off, added, or changed target dates on anything on their plan, because I want them to realize plans can be adjusted.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

I am a new-ish assistant professor (in the humanities) and a few of my doc students have started their dissertation milestones (qualifying exam/paper, dissertation proposal). What I am seeing is that they aren't progressing on getting them done. I am worried that they are going to stall out (while also expecting/hoping me to fund them). They are great people and they do my research work for/with me. They just don't seem to move on their own work.

Is it a norm in your field to have multiple PhD students just few years in?

Also, could you get them out with a master's degree? if there are signs already of them unable to work independently, it seems reasonable to do so.  The outrageous thing about PhD students attrition is that most of it happens at a very late stage after people already sank too much time and money (directly and through opportunity cost) into pursuing their degree.

[apl68]

I am a new-ish assistant professor (in the humanities) and a few of my doc students have started their dissertation milestones (qualifying exam/paper, dissertation proposal). What I am seeing is that they aren't progressing on getting them done. I am worried that they are going to stall out (while also expecting/hoping me to fund them). They are great people and they do my research work for/with me. They just don't seem to move on their own work.

Is it a norm in your field to have multiple PhD students just few years in?

Also, could you get them out with a master's degree? if there are signs already of them unable to work independently, it seems reasonable to do so.  The outrageous thing about PhD students attrition is that most of it happens at a very late stage after people already sank too much time and money (directly and through opportunity cost) into pursuing their degree.

Tell me about it!

[Caracal]

I am a new-ish assistant professor (in the humanities) and a few of my doc students have started their dissertation milestones (qualifying exam/paper, dissertation proposal). What I am seeing is that they aren't progressing on getting them done. I am worried that they are going to stall out (while also expecting/hoping me to fund them). They are great people and they do my research work for/with me. They just don't seem to move on their own work.

Is it a norm in your field to have multiple PhD students just few years in?

Also, could you get them out with a master's degree? if there are signs already of them unable to work independently, it seems reasonable to do so.  The outrageous thing about PhD students attrition is that most of it happens at a very late stage after people already sank too much time and money (directly and through opportunity cost) into pursuing their degree.

I agree that it isn't kind to let people hang around who aren't going to be able to finish. On the other hand, it is important not to confuse those students with students who occasionally get stuck or have a different approach than you did. Part of the process is actually learning how to get work done, people work really differently and there isn't one way to write a dissertation.

It is hard to really figure out what is going on without knowing more about individual students and where they are. A student who is has been ABD for two years but has done no  research and produced nothing tangible like a chapter or an article is really different than a student who finished their comps last spring and hasn't formulated a research plan yet.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

It is hard to really figure out what is going on without knowing more about individual students and where they are. A student who is has been ABD for two years but has done no  research and produced nothing tangible like a chapter or an article is really different than a student who finished their comps last spring and hasn't formulated a research plan yet.

Waiting two years to decide whether the project is feasible seems to be quite a waste in terms of both stipend money and student's time (particularly, if considering money/time already spent before the exam).

There seems to be another field-specific issue here: in my case thesis proposal was required before the qualifying exam.
So, it would be impossible to pass the exam without formulating a research plan.

[Caracal]

It is hard to really figure out what is going on without knowing more about individual students and where they are. A student who is has been ABD for two years but has done no  research and produced nothing tangible like a chapter or an article is really different than a student who finished their comps last spring and hasn't formulated a research plan yet.

Waiting two years to decide whether the project is feasible seems to be quite a waste in terms of both stipend money and student's time (particularly, if considering money/time already spent before the exam).

There seems to be another field-specific issue here: in my case thesis proposal was required before the qualifying exam.
So, it would be impossible to pass the exam without formulating a research plan.

That kind of thing varies not just by field but by institution. My department had no official thesis proposal. I did one anyway and presented it at a seminar, but it didn't need to be approved in any official way.

But, yes, I agree. There's a lot of difference between a student who is temporarily drifting and one who has just gotten completely stalled out. In the first case, an advisor should probably just nudge gently and make sure the student starts regaining focus. In the latter, clear benchmarks required to stay in the program are probably called for.

[jerseyjay]

I have run into the following types of students:

Those who have no intention of finishing the PhD but spout just enough BS to remain in the program so long as they are funded;

Those who are capable of finishing and plan to finish but are poor with regards to planning out their writing;

Those who want to finish but really are not capable of doing so;

Those who already have some type of full-time job not dependent on finishing their thesis, so they want to finish their thesis but may not be the most motivated;

Those who plan on finishing but are excellent procrastinators (often because they have other things going on). I have known more than one grad student who waited to the last minute to finish their dissertation, but did so under immense pressure. I would not recommend this, but it does happen;

Those who think they belong to the previous category, but are unable to actually pull it off.

Each type of student is different and requires a different approach.

[mamselle]

So, based on your list, you've never had a single student who actually finished?

M.

[jerseyjay]

Well, if you read the list closely, the penultimate type of students finished. But as Tolstoy said, all good graduate students are the same, but troublesome grad students are each troubling in his own way. So why put students who finish on the list?

And being serious, I would say that the majority of PhD students I have known (not supervised) have not finished their dissertations.

[Caracal]

Well, if you read the list closely, the penultimate type of students finished. But as Tolstoy said, all good graduate students are the same, but troublesome grad students are each troubling in his own way. So why put students who finish on the list?

And being serious, I would say that the majority of PhD students I have known (not supervised) have not finished their dissertations.

I'm sure a lot depends on where you are. In my program, the vast majority of students finished eventually. In my cohort, out of 11 of us, only two didn't finish.