First-gen university graduate

[Kron3007]

My older brother was the first one in my family to earn a degree, I was the second a few years later. I don't keep up much with friends from high school, we have gone in divergent paths and we don't have a lot in common now.  I came from a very blue-collar kind of town. Most of the people I went to school with are still living in that area and, for the most part, have dead-end jobs and little prospects.

I'm sure it was not your intention, but this is the exact kind of attitude that gives all of academia a bad name.  Just because someone is a plumber, works in a factory, or does another "dead-end job" dosn't mean they are beneath you and that you are somehow superior.  As mentioned above, I have many friends that fit this bill and they are good people and good friends.  We don't have too much in common professionally, but that dosnt mean that they are somehow inferior and we have many other things in common.

To me it is a little sad when people define themselves and others by their career.

       

[apl68]

Not sure how I messed this up, but let's try fixing this to look more like what I originally wanted to say:

The former dean of the theology school I adjuncted at a long time ago was married to a plumber.

They were happy then and so far as I know they are still happily married.

So there may be something in that.

M.

I can imagine if the dean started droning on about the trials and tribulations of academia, the plumber could return the "favour" by waxing lyrical about snaking out toilets which might encourage them both to give it up and talk about something of mutual interest. ( Or if the plumber is more likely to rant, the situation would work in reverse.)

Either way, that could be really useful for a couple where one member is prone to complaining about work day-in, day-out. The fact that their work lives are so different would make it easier to choose not to inflict them on each other.

If they have any children, they'll grow up hearing about a variety of stuff, at least.  As I grew up hearing about masonry, on one hand, and school (and later college) teaching on the other.  One reason why I can converse easily with either people who do blue-collar work, or with academics.

[dismalist]

The OP's question seems to be about the trade-off between attending college and giving up one's friends, perhaps seeking advice about minimizing the degree of trade-off.

Apparently, all us first generation people, BA, PhD, thought it was worthwhile. For me, it wasn't even a cost. It was an added benefit.

For symmetry we should ask those left behind if they missed us, or perhaps were happy to see us go. :-)

[onehappyunicorn]

My older brother was the first one in my family to earn a degree, I was the second a few years later. I don't keep up much with friends from high school, we have gone in divergent paths and we don't have a lot in common now.  I came from a very blue-collar kind of town. Most of the people I went to school with are still living in that area and, for the most part, have dead-end jobs and little prospects.

I'm sure it was not your intention, but this is the exact kind of attitude that gives all of academia a bad name.  Just because someone is a plumber, works in a factory, or does another "dead-end job" dosn't mean they are beneath you and that you are somehow superior.  As mentioned above, I have many friends that fit this bill and they are good people and good friends.  We don't have too much in common professionally, but that dosnt mean that they are somehow inferior and we have many other things in common.

To me it is a little sad when people define themselves and others by their career.

     

Okay, I'm not sure how what I wrote correlates to what you are accusing me of, you are reading an awful lot into that.

Allow me to be more specific, they are not in the trades, they have jobs at places like Lowes, Walmart, etc... I don't think that I am above them, I just see their misery about their prospects on Facebook. I worked scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets at night for three years putting myself through my undergraduate degree, I am not speaking from the top of an ivory tower.

One friend who I have kept up with works for a plumbing supply company. He has gone on to do more training, eventually earned an accounting degree, and now makes quite a bit more money than me. We still talk from time to time because we can talk about a variety of topics that don't include just the time we spent together in high school.

As you said it is not about the career, I have friends spanning a wide variety of professions, but I don't know how to connect with people who see the world the exact same way they did 25 years ago. Facebook (which I use begrudgingly as many members of my family only post updates and pictures of my nieces and nephews there) has shown me that many of my friends from that time are still stuck in the same mindset and deliberate incuriosity as when they were in high school.

What I see as the poisonous attitude is that many of the people I went to high school with felt like they should have good jobs right out of high school like their parents did. We could discuss the "why" but the reality is that is just not what the current market is like here in the US. My father started out sweeping floors in a glass factory and just retired as the head of quality control. Everyone else in his position across the manufacturing plant has an advanced degree, they won't even consider someone for that job without one now.

I think I am drifting off-topic here.

I definitely can echo what dismalist said as well.

[spork]

^ This is exactly what I was alluding to in my comment: rural area, hardly anyone learning the technical skills required for a trade, closed textile mill, often a mindset of "I deserve better" without the willingness to put forth the effort to make it happen.

[Kron3007]

My older brother was the first one in my family to earn a degree, I was the second a few years later. I don't keep up much with friends from high school, we have gone in divergent paths and we don't have a lot in common now.  I came from a very blue-collar kind of town. Most of the people I went to school with are still living in that area and, for the most part, have dead-end jobs and little prospects.

I'm sure it was not your intention, but this is the exact kind of attitude that gives all of academia a bad name.  Just because someone is a plumber, works in a factory, or does another "dead-end job" dosn't mean they are beneath you and that you are somehow superior.  As mentioned above, I have many friends that fit this bill and they are good people and good friends.  We don't have too much in common professionally, but that dosnt mean that they are somehow inferior and we have many other things in common.

To me it is a little sad when people define themselves and others by their career.

     

Okay, I'm not sure how what I wrote correlates to what you are accusing me of, you are reading an awful lot into that.

Allow me to be more specific, they are not in the trades, they have jobs at places like Lowes, Walmart, etc... I don't think that I am above them, I just see their misery about their prospects on Facebook. I worked scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets at night for three years putting myself through my undergraduate degree, I am not speaking from the top of an ivory tower.

One friend who I have kept up with works for a plumbing supply company. He has gone on to do more training, eventually earned an accounting degree, and now makes quite a bit more money than me. We still talk from time to time because we can talk about a variety of topics that don't include just the time we spent together in high school.

As you said it is not about the career, I have friends spanning a wide variety of professions, but I don't know how to connect with people who see the world the exact same way they did 25 years ago. Facebook (which I use begrudgingly as many members of my family only post updates and pictures of my nieces and nephews there) has shown me that many of my friends from that time are still stuck in the same mindset and deliberate incuriosity as when they were in high school.

What I see as the poisonous attitude is that many of the people I went to high school with felt like they should have good jobs right out of high school like their parents did. We could discuss the "why" but the reality is that is just not what the current market is like here in the US. My father started out sweeping floors in a glass factory and just retired as the head of quality control. Everyone else in his position across the manufacturing plant has an advanced degree, they won't even consider someone for that job without one now.

I think I am drifting off-topic here.

I definitely can echo what dismalist said as well.

Im glad you didn't mean it the way I took it, but I'm surprised you don't see how it could be taken that way.  There are a few posts in this thread that smell of elitism, even if they were not intended that way. 

The thought (implied or otherwise) that an academic from a blue collar background wouldn't be able to maintain childhood friendships because they don't have anything in common feeds right into the liberal elitist stereotypes.  This all feeds right into Trump's pitch.

For the record, I am not friends with all of my childhood buddies.  We have drifted or have lost touch, but this has little to do with me being an academic and is normal for all adults.  This is very different than saying that I would not have anything in common with my childhood friends because of education.

[adel9216]

Have you ever had people who were envious of the fact that you're an academic ?

[adel9216]

My older brother was the first one in my family to earn a degree, I was the second a few years later. I don't keep up much with friends from high school, we have gone in divergent paths and we don't have a lot in common now.  I came from a very blue-collar kind of town. Most of the people I went to school with are still living in that area and, for the most part, have dead-end jobs and little prospects.

I'm sure it was not your intention, but this is the exact kind of attitude that gives all of academia a bad name.  Just because someone is a plumber, works in a factory, or does another "dead-end job" dosn't mean they are beneath you and that you are somehow superior.  As mentioned above, I have many friends that fit this bill and they are good people and good friends.  We don't have too much in common professionally, but that dosnt mean that they are somehow inferior and we have many other things in common.

To me it is a little sad when people define themselves and others by their career.

     

Okay, I'm not sure how what I wrote correlates to what you are accusing me of, you are reading an awful lot into that.

Allow me to be more specific, they are not in the trades, they have jobs at places like Lowes, Walmart, etc... I don't think that I am above them, I just see their misery about their prospects on Facebook. I worked scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets at night for three years putting myself through my undergraduate degree, I am not speaking from the top of an ivory tower.

One friend who I have kept up with works for a plumbing supply company. He has gone on to do more training, eventually earned an accounting degree, and now makes quite a bit more money than me. We still talk from time to time because we can talk about a variety of topics that don't include just the time we spent together in high school.

As you said it is not about the career, I have friends spanning a wide variety of professions, but I don't know how to connect with people who see the world the exact same way they did 25 years ago. Facebook (which I use begrudgingly as many members of my family only post updates and pictures of my nieces and nephews there) has shown me that many of my friends from that time are still stuck in the same mindset and deliberate incuriosity as when they were in high school.

What I see as the poisonous attitude is that many of the people I went to high school with felt like they should have good jobs right out of high school like their parents did. We could discuss the "why" but the reality is that is just not what the current market is like here in the US. My father started out sweeping floors in a glass factory and just retired as the head of quality control. Everyone else in his position across the manufacturing plant has an advanced degree, they won't even consider someone for that job without one now.

I think I am drifting off-topic here.

I definitely can echo what dismalist said as well.

Im glad you didn't mean it the way I took it, but I'm surprised you don't see how it could be taken that way.  There are a few posts in this thread that smell of elitism, even if they were not intended that way. 

The thought (implied or otherwise) that an academic from a blue collar background wouldn't be able to maintain childhood friendships because they don't have anything in common feeds right into the liberal elitist stereotypes.  This all feeds right into Trump's pitch.

For the record, I am not friends with all of my childhood buddies.  We have drifted or have lost touch, but this has little to do with me being an academic and is normal for all adults.  This is very different than saying that I would not have anything in common with my childhood friends because of education.

That wasn't the intention of the thread to be elitist.

In fact, my concern is that it's happened to me that I've lost a few friends who became very intimidated by my career path and credentials, even if I don't define myself through work and am not discussing work with them. Hopefully, not tons of them. But a few people are legit intimidated and tell me so even if I consider myself the least intimidating person I know haha.

I had questions about if that happened to someone else here.

[spork]

Have you ever had people who were envious of the fact that you're an academic ?

Not in this country, where people take pride in their willful ignorance, but in other countries, where education is prized, yes.

[EdnaMode]

That wasn't the intention of the thread to be elitist.

In fact, my concern is that it's happened to me that I've lost a few friends who became very intimidated by my career path and credentials, even if I don't define myself through work and am not discussing work with them. Hopefully, not tons of them. But a few people are legit intimidated and tell me so even if I consider myself the least intimidating person I know haha.

I had questions about if that happened to someone else here.

It happened to me. I still think of myself as [childhood nickname], just a regular person who grew up very much blue-collar in small towns, not Dr. Mode (except to my students, and sometimes in certain professional environments where titles are expected to be used). When I would go back home-home to visit my Dad I'd run into people, we'd start chatting, and then I would say I was in grad school, or later when I described my industry jobs, and after I went into academia would say I was a professor, often the conversations would start to lag. It's like they thought either I thought I was better than them, or perhaps that I was bragging, but I was just stating what I was doing, like they were stating that they were now doing whatever job they were doing locally. I still cared about what was going on with them, their families, etc.

I remember one conversation in particular, I was at the farm & home store picking up something for Dad and ran into someone I used to know. They said something like "I saw your father a couple weeks ago, I thought he said you were in China. But you're here. I must have misunderstood." I told them no, they hadn't misunderstood, I had been in China for work until just a few days prior and now had some time off work so came to visit him. I was exhausted by work and travel and it was good to be home-home for a bit. They replied "Ooooh, you were in China and you're tired from all the travel, well good for you. Guess you're better than us now." I didn't know what to say to that so just said something like, good to see you, gotta go, buying a thing for Dad, and left. It did make me a bit sad and confused because I went over the conversation in my head, wondered if I'd phrased things poorly or came off as snobby, but couldn't figure out what I'd done to upset that person.

I think perhaps some people, especially those who did not go to college, get intimidated by academics. But a lot of my current friends are not academics and did not go to college. I like people who are interesting and I can have a good conversation with, or share a hobby with, etc., doesn't matter a bit if they have degrees or not. I do have friends who also were first gen college students like me, who went on to get advanced degrees, who have lost some friendships in a similar matter, so I know it's not just a few of us but I also think it's something that people don't talk about, especially first gen people who already may feel a bit out of place in academia, both as students and eventually as faculty.

[Kron3007]

Yes, I have had this happen in a mild version but have also had a lot of my old friends tell me how proud of me they were (which can be odd from friends). 

I suppose the dynamics probably vary a lot based on the specific location.  I was from a rural, fairly blue collar, region, but the level of education, income, etc. was pretty good.  Perhaps this is a lot different in more depressed regions and I would sing a different tune if I were from a different area.     

[apl68]

Yes, I have had this happen in a mild version but have also had a lot of my old friends tell me how proud of me they were (which can be odd from friends). 

I suppose the dynamics probably vary a lot based on the specific location.  I was from a rural, fairly blue collar, region, but the level of education, income, etc. was pretty good.  Perhaps this is a lot different in more depressed regions and I would sing a different tune if I were from a different area.   

I come from a rural region where levels of education and income weren't all that impressive when I was growing up, and have declined a good deal since.  Some people I know seem pretty impressed by my level of education, even to the point of giving me more credit than I deserve in that department (I am a failed academic, after all).  I've seen some unquestioned anti-intellectualism, but I don't encounter it all the time.  What I encounter is people who have chosen different paths in life.  Not always good ones.  And yet I've found that we can usually find something in common if we look for it.  Likewise, if you make  point of looking for anti-intellectualism and mutual contempt and reasons to feel alienated from and superior to those you grew up with, you'll find them.  I still get a strong superiority vibe from certain of the posts above, and it's pretty ugly.

I don't know many of the people that I knew growing up because I've been away from my home town (except for frequent visits to close family) for many years, and many of my old school friends have moved on too.  But I live among people a lot like those old school friends were, and we get along.  People are people.  A lot of it is down to whether one likes people in general, or really doesn't much like people in general.  God loves us despite our manifest unloveability as a species, and we owe each other no less.

[marshwiggle]

I'm just kind of curious how much of this divide isn't about education per se, but about urban/rural differences. Many people (including me) have come from rural communities and now live in urban communities. The loss of connection with former friends and acquaintances often will be more related to different locations than levels of education.

[adel9216]

I'm just kind of curious how much of this divide isn't about education per se, but about urban/rural differences. Many people (including me) have come from rural communities and now live in urban communities. The loss of connection with former friends and acquaintances often will be more related to different locations than levels of education.

Maybe it's a combination of things. But one thing's for sure, being an academic does create a distinction between us and most people in good and bad ways because most people don't have PhDs