Giving Feedback on Bad Student Papers

[quasihumanist]

I do have a rubric for the papers, but when I follow it all the students flunk!

You know 70-79=C isn't set in stone.  In England, 50-60=C, and someone gets a 90 like once a year, and a 95 means you should do my job.

Just use your rubric and tell your students that 40-60=C, or whatever is a reasonable achievement level for your students given your rubric.

Or, if you don't like that, add 50 points to your rubric for simply turning in something.

[Parasaurolophus]

When a paper is very bad--and I get lots of them--I focus on just a couple of major problems, which I highlight for the student.

I also like to use a rubric, but not one with points attached--I always feel slaved to the points, and I don't feel like there's enough room for nuance there. Instead, the rubric just breaks the assignment into a few different parts--e.g. citations, clarity, argumentation, etc.--and tells them what constitutes excellent work, good work, work that needs work, or poor work. I circle the relevant areas, and add a couple of comments specific to the paper.

But I also tell them they can always come back to me during my office hours for more detailed feedback. I also tell everyone at the outset that I'll point out spelling and grammar issues on the first page only. (Otherwise, it'd take forever. Although I'm sometimes tempted to grade as I was graded in school--every mistake costs .5%. But that would be cruel.)

[kaysixteen]

Hmmmm... I have never graded with a rubric, because, unless I am missing something, certain things seem true:

1) something like a Latin vocab quiz or a chemistry test, it is either (more or less) right or wrong, so a 'rubric' would seem superfluous

2)but for a paper/ essay question, in a humanities field, a rigid grading rubric seems too reductionist, i.e., the teacher has the rubric and scans the essay for x,y,z, etc., almost like a computer, but removing from the teacher the human factor, the abilty to wholistically evaluate the work, pay attention to nuance, style, etc.

[Ruralguy]

As others have pointed out, rubrics for something like Physics can be useful.

2 pts off out of 10 if mostly right, minor math error
half off if got the right idea, major math errors
8 pts off if very little presented or really just very wrong
all pts off if blank or utterly irrelevant material is presented

[Wahoo Redux]

My comments are always based on exercises, lessons, or examples from class. I never try to comment on more than three things at any one time, even if the problems are multiple.  This is very important: you need to give them criteria and a base line so they know what you are talking about.

I have been using the "draw" function in Blackboard to underline and circle really problematic stuff.  I then will model a couple of sentences (if I have the time).  Like:

Student: "I was really glad that students got to have a chances for to make up due to time constraints."

I then give a couple of practical tips:

"Read this aloud to yourself.  Does this sound like formal language?  Have you ever had anyone actually say these phrases to you?  How does it sound in your ears when you read it?  Can we make this into two sentences that are clearer?"

This way it is on them to figure it out----pedagogically sound, you can be polite, and it puts the onus on them to be active learners, which they really have to do anyway to learn to write.

I then will generally rewrite one or two sentences as models.

"What about:

"I was very please to see that students were afforded a second chance.  Time is often an issue for students."

When I talk directly to them in the comments, I always try to say at least something positive and use the "we" pronoun.

"I like your subject and I can see you thought about it. Now we just need to tighten up the writing."

And----this helps a lot----I offer to let them rewrite.  You maybe don't allow that, but it is the best way to learn to write, and again, that places the onus on them.  They may be getting a bad grade now, but hey! you give them the opportunity to make it better.

And, you know, maybe give them a break.  The reason most students are bad writers is poor secondary education, some cognitive or learning difficulty, a non-literary family, or a combination of all these.  My open-enrollment uni teaches local kids from a poor town.  We have a mix, and some are barely literate and it is not their fault.

And!  Send them to the writing center.  Even give them extra credit to get them through those doors.

Good luck.

[jerseyjay]

Hmmmm... I have never graded with a rubric, because, unless I am missing something, certain things seem true:

1) something like a Latin vocab quiz or a chemistry test, it is either (more or less) right or wrong, so a 'rubric' would seem superfluous

2)but for a paper/ essay question, in a humanities field, a rigid grading rubric seems too reductionist, i.e., the teacher has the rubric and scans the essay for x,y,z, etc., almost like a computer, but removing from the teacher the human factor, the abilty to wholistically evaluate the work, pay attention to nuance, style, etc.

I was resistant to grading with rubrics for a while, and this was my rationale. But then I realized that rubrics can be helpful because they 1) make grading go quicker because they save me from writing the same comments over and over and 2) they provide the illusion of objectivity to something that is an inherent subjective experience.

Perhaps like others, I can look at papers and say, this is a C+ paper, this is an A- paper, this is a solid B paper. I have been teaching for long enough that I just know this. Except for final exams or term papers that the students won't get back, this is not very helpful for the students. So having rubrics helps quantify this. If, after applying a rubric, you are getting grades that you do not think are useful (either everybody is getting too high a grade, or too low a grade, as in the case of the OP), you should adjust how you are applying the rubric.

In the OP's situation, where I teach a  class with freshman who do not know how to write well, I might ask some of my more experienced colleagues about their spread of grades. Presumably, if this class is a class that many students do poorly, then a certain amount of student complaining is expected. If they tell you that the average grade is a B+ and you are giving mainly Ds, you might adjust your grading accordingly (or not, but at least be prepared to be known as a hard grader, which is not always bad.)

[apl68]

It sounds like you are in a difficult position. You might try flipping the script a bit. Most students think that they start at 100% and points are deducted. I try to explain to students that they start at 0% and points are awarded. Since they need at least 50% to pass my class, handing in complete work earns them 50%, so they go from 0 to 50 quickly. After that, they earn points for other aspects of the assignment. This approach is mind-bending to some, so do not expect immediate resolution to your grade-grubbing students, but can help explain why "completion" is not worth 100%.

That teaches a good life lesson.

[marshwiggle]

Perhaps like others, I can look at papers and say, this is a C+ paper, this is an A- paper, this is a solid B paper. I have been teaching for long enough that I just know this. Except for final exams or term papers that the students won't get back, this is not very helpful for the students. So having rubrics helps quantify this. If, after applying a rubric, you are getting grades that you do not think are useful (either everybody is getting too high a grade, or too low a grade, as in the case of the OP), you should adjust how you are applying the rubric.

And re-examine the rubric itself. If there's something that it consistently doesn't seem to adequately address, then it ought to be tweaked.

[Caracal]

Perhaps like others, I can look at papers and say, this is a C+ paper, this is an A- paper, this is a solid B paper. I have been teaching for long enough that I just know this. Except for final exams or term papers that the students won't get back, this is not very helpful for the students. So having rubrics helps quantify this. If, after applying a rubric, you are getting grades that you do not think are useful (either everybody is getting too high a grade, or too low a grade, as in the case of the OP), you should adjust how you are applying the rubric.

And re-examine the rubric itself. If there's something that it consistently doesn't seem to adequately address, then it ought to be tweaked.

The way I do rubrics is that I have a few big categories. For example on an in class exam its 25 pts for argument, 25 for use of evidence, 25 for analysis, 25 for synthesis. I then have a sheet where I explain what those categories mean and how I award points for them. For all the categories, 21 is basically "adequate," although I explain in far more detail what that means. So, for "argument" if you actually address the question, have at least some kind of thesis, and write something that has is organized in a more or less reasonable way that I can follow, thats a 21. The extra four points are for doing more than that-having a strong thesis, an organizational structure designed to make a complex argument, etc. Below 21 is when you fall below adequate.

[downer]

I've been doing list rubrics for quite a few years, spelling out the dimensions I'm looking for.

But I only recently started using the LMS to actually score student work with a rubric, and I spelled out some my learning process on a separate thread. Now I make a grid, which spells out the dimensions, says what would count as perfect work, and then also lists the degrees that students don't achieve perfection.

While it is pretty easy to spell out perfection, it is impossible to anticipate all the myriad ways in which students can mess up, and rank them with scores. So my use of the grid is often a bit innacurate, because I don't have a box that exactly fits the way the student work had flaws.

That's not a problem for two reasons: you can write in a more detailed explanation with your rubric grade, and students never ask questions about that anyway.

[marshwiggle]

But I only recently started using the LMS to actually score student work with a rubric, and I spelled out some my learning process on a separate thread. Now I make a grid, which spells out the dimensions, says what would count as perfect work, and then also lists the degrees that students don't achieve perfection.

Someone (on here, I believe), made the distinction between "subjectivity" and "arbitrariness". A good rubric may not eliminate the first, but it should certainly reduce the second. In other words, what "poor", "OK" and "good" examples are of some factor may be subjective, so it may be hard for students to see why two papers fit the same cell on a grid, but if two papers fit on the same cell of a grid the grades received should be pretty similar. If they aren't that will appear arbitrary to the students.

[Caracal]

Is there any pedagogical reason for worrying about the students' feelings? I don't really understand why we shouldn't give it to them straight. Indeed, that's what I do these days. I'm not aiming to be popular with students.

I think that's true to an extent. The point of written feedback is to explain to students why they got the grade they did, point out ways to improve and highlight what they are doing well. You aren't doing a student any favors if you don't tell them why they got a bad grade.

It isn't my job to manage how they feel about the grade or their feedback. I don't really know how students are going to respond to a grade anyway. Sometimes I'll grade a pretty bad assignment and assume the student is disappointed and find out that they were quite happy to get a C instead of an F. The students who come to see me to talk about how to improve for the next assignment are often the ones who got an A-.

All that said, the point is to give students useful feedback that will help them improve. You don't want to pile on in the comments about all of the many things wrong with a bad student paper. You want to encourage them to do better, not beat them down. Sometimes, there aren't a lot of positives and there's no reason to patronize students by making up things to praise them for-"I really liked the way you wrote your name at the top of the paper, but after that things went a little downhill." However, it is good to point out bright spots in an otherwise bad paper. "The point you made on page 4 was really interesting-that really should have been your thesis and then you could have built the paper around it. I read that part and wanted to know more, but the paper just suddenly started summarizing the textbook again." I don't do that to be nice, I want the student to think they are capable of doing better work.

So, sure, the goal of feedback shouldn't be to spare the student's feelings or make them like me, but I'm also not trying to make them feel bad, and I would prefer that they don't think I'm a jerk, mostly because that isn't going to help them improve. Of course, I can't control how they feel...

[Wahoo Redux]

Is there any pedagogical reason for worrying about the students' feelings? I don't really understand why we shouldn't give it to them straight. Indeed, that's what I do these days. I'm not aiming to be popular with students.

I think that's true to an extent.

It isn't my job to manage how they feel about the grade or their feedback. I don't really know how students are going to respond to a grade anyway.

I think back to my high school coaches and the many music teachers I have had over the years.

Many of them were quite honest to the point of being harsh, but I always had the impression they were rooting for me.

Something like writing, which causes students a great deal of anxiety, is taught better if the student thinks you are empathetic.  Students also seem to take writing criticism very personally, I think because it is something they have created rather than recited.  They don't have to be buds, but they will be more open to learning if they think we are on their side.

At least these are my observations after having taught a lot of writing.

[RatGuy]

It might also be helpful to use some metacognative assignments post-grading. Allow students to engage directly with your comments and engage with the revision process. When I was teaching freshmen at an open-enrollment university, I found this quite helpful in gauging what they learned from the comments on their papers. And I learned to stop adding a certain comment or marking if I discovered that they didn't get anything out of it.

I'll also add that at my current place I use the various grading functions in our Blackboard and Turnitin systems. I've found that more than 75% of any given class (and I teach gen-ed and majors) don't access the comments at all. My guess is that even fewer in a freshman class would read them. That creates a whole other set of problems.

[Caracal]

Is there any pedagogical reason for worrying about the students' feelings? I don't really understand why we shouldn't give it to them straight. Indeed, that's what I do these days. I'm not aiming to be popular with students.

I think that's true to an extent.

It isn't my job to manage how they feel about the grade or their feedback. I don't really know how students are going to respond to a grade anyway.

I think back to my high school coaches and the many music teachers I have had over the years.

Many of them were quite honest to the point of being harsh, but I always had the impression they were rooting for me.

Something like writing, which causes students a great deal of anxiety, is taught better if the student thinks you are empathetic.  Students also seem to take writing criticism very personally, I think because it is something they have created rather than recited.  They don't have to be buds, but they will be more open to learning if they think we are on their side.

At least these are my observations after having taught a lot of writing.

Yeah, I agree completely. Better put than what I wrote. When I was in grad school, a professor told me quite bluntly that turning in things with lots of grammatical errors and typos was just not acceptable. She said something along the lines of "people aren't going to take you seriously if you submit things like this. You have lots of interesting ideas, but that won't matter if you turn in sloppy work." It was a mortifying thing to hear, but I got the message and was much more careful about proofreading after that.

I don't think that feedback would have had the same positive effect if the professor hadn't positioned herself on my side.