Giving Feedback on Bad Student Papers

[Charlotte]

I wanted to get some advice from some more experienced professors on how they give feedback on bad student papers. I try to soften the blow with some general positive comment, but it's difficult to not pile on all the negative comments afterwards.

If I focus on just one issue, they complain that I took too many points off for that issue and then I have to say, well this was also wrong, this, this, and that.

If I give all the negative criticisms, they complain that I am rude.

If I don't give any feedback, they complain I took off points for nothing and wouldn't explain why.

Whatever feedback I give, they come back and argue with me about it.

I'm about to tear my hair out with frustration over feedback. Is this a situation where I just cannot win?

Lastly, how common is grading for completion? I have so many students who complain that they submitted the assignment on time, why didn't they get a perfect grade?

This may be the topic of another thread, but I also get the feeling that I am harder on students than other teachers at my school. Not by much, but I think I'm getting the reputation of being a difficult teacher because I do stress things such as using peer reviewed sources and citing them correctly. I don't think I'm asking too much to back up their claims with sources and use the correct citation style for the field, but with all my students getting it wrong I suspect I am the only one.

Should I keep on or should I try to adjust to more closely reflect the other teachers here?

[traductio]

I wanted to get some advice from some more experienced professors on how they give feedback on bad student papers. I try to soften the blow with some general positive comment, but it's difficult to not pile on all the negative comments afterwards.

If I focus on just one issue, they complain that I took too many points off for that issue and then I have to say, well this was also wrong, this, this, and that.

If I give all the negative criticisms, they complain that I am rude.

If I don't give any feedback, they complain I took off points for nothing and wouldn't explain why.

Whatever feedback I give, they come back and argue with me about it.

I'm about to tear my hair out with frustration over feedback. Is this a situation where I just cannot win?

Lastly, how common is grading for completion? I have so many students who complain that they submitted the assignment on time, why didn't they get a perfect grade?

This may be the topic of another thread, but I also get the feeling that I am harder on students than other teachers at my school. Not by much, but I think I'm getting the reputation of being a difficult teacher because I do stress things such as using peer reviewed sources and citing them correctly.

Should I keep on or should I try to adjust to more closely reflect the other teachers here?

Ugh, that's tough.

My solution has been rubrics (I know there was a thread on that a while ago) -- I write the rubric beforehand and include it as the second page of the paper prompt.

My prompts always take the same format, or some variation -- define Idea X. Apply Idea X to a concrete example I provide. Evaluate the usefulness of Idea X in this context. My rubrics, then, correspond to those parts: Quality / accuracy of definition. Relevance of application. Persuasiveness of evaluation (based on the evidence provided). It helps speed up grading, while softening the blow somewhat, as I usually give comments, too, but don't have to give too many. Like you, I start with what works in a paper before saying what needs work, and in my comments I focus on one or two major points, while letting the rubric address the others.

Good luck -- you have my sympathy.

(And grading for completion? That's certainly not the case at my school, but I imagine our approach at my Canadian R1-equivalent would be very different from the approach at, say, the US community college where my mom taught for 25 years.)

[Charlotte]

I do have a rubric for the papers, but when I follow it all the students flunk! I stopped using it for that reason. I tried one that I wrote, one that my former professor gave me, and one the school gave me. All of them seem to require beyond what my students are capable of and/or willing to put into the assignment.

I'm getting a little concerned that I'm collecting too many negative student evaluations for a new teacher. It may be because I'm a younger female and I tend to be pretty serious. Students may think I'm unfriendly. But I'm wondering if my holding a hard line on submitting good work is going to put me right out of a job.

I know that sounds terrible, but I am worried that I might be replaced if I cannot work out a way to keep students happy with their grade. I might feel more confident if I had been teaching longer, but as a second year professor, I'm getting worried!

[the_geneticist]

Rubrics are your friend. You could even let students score some example writing. They can be even harsher graders than you.  You could adjust the categories so that it's possible to be weak/needs improvement and still pass.
Scaffolding the writing will also help.  Like have them start with just a sentence or two about their topic/question/comparison.   That way if their entire premise is flawed, they have time to start over before they have written much.
Grading for "completion" is nonsense.  On time just means you don't lose points for lateness. 

But who knows how they were graded in all online high school classes for the past year+ (I assume these are freshmen?). 

And finally, don't take it personally. Upset students will always be a thing.  Go for "consistent and fair" rather than "unclear but will always give points back if you beg". 

[arcturus]

It sounds like you are in a difficult position. You might try flipping the script a bit. Most students think that they start at 100% and points are deducted. I try to explain to students that they start at 0% and points are awarded. Since they need at least 50% to pass my class, handing in complete work earns them 50%, so they go from 0 to 50 quickly. After that, they earn points for other aspects of the assignment. This approach is mind-bending to some, so do not expect immediate resolution to your grade-grubbing students, but can help explain why "completion" is not worth 100%.

[downer]

Is there any pedagogical reason for worrying about the students' feelings? I don't really understand why we shouldn't give it to them straight. Indeed, that's what I do these days. I'm not aiming to be popular with students.

Of course, I understand that there are schools who have a policy where "the customer is always right." Then just give everyone an A and make your life easier. They have given up an academic mission. Or if you can't stand to do that, just do what you can live with.

[ergative]

Rubrics are your friend. You could even let students score some example writing. They can be even harsher graders than you.

This is so true! I wrote a set of sample essays for a first-year seminar, and they gave the intended A-level essay a C. I was surprised at the strength of my indignation.

[traductio]

I do have a rubric for the papers, but when I follow it all the students flunk!

Are you using the rubric to assign points? I state explicitly that my rubric is heuristic, meaning students can't add up the columns to arrive at their score. I also structure the rubric so there are no numbers. Each row looks something like this:

The definition of Concept X is: very clear and correct | clear and correct | either clear or correct | neither clear no correct.

Then I circle the evaluation. This helps emphasize the heuristic nature of the feedback.

(You might be doing this already -- I just thought I'd mention it.)

Arcturus's comment about explaining that you start at 0 and earn points (rather than starting at 100 and losing points) has also been very helpful.

The other thing you'll find is that it takes a year or two to calibrate your expectations to your students' abilities. I was a lot more of a hard-ass my first year of teaching, but over time, I've softened, not because I've lowered my standards (well, not only because I've lowered my standards), but because I've realized the level of work that students need to be successful, much more pragmatically -- my students have gone on to get jobs, despite the problems I saw in their writing.

(When I moved to Canada from the States, I unintentionally went the other direction. In Ontario, the grading scale is 90-100 is an A+, 85-89 is an A, 80-84 is an A-. I was used to 90 being the cut-off for an A, so my goal with all my multiple choice exams was an average grade around 78. That's C+ in the States and a B+ here. I gave way more As and A+s than I intended for the first two or three years.)

[Sun_Worshiper]

OP, it sounds like you are doing it right. If students have complaints, then hear them out. Assuming they don't have a valid point, explain why the grade is justified. You may get a reputation as a tough grader, but that's better than being a pushover.

[traductio]

OP, it sounds like you are doing it right. If students have complaints, then hear them out. Assuming they don't have a valid point, explain why the grade is justified. You may get a reputation as a tough grader, but that's better than being a pushover.

Just wanted to echo Sun Worhiper here -- it sounds like you're doing things right. It's hard perspective to have when you're starting out, but it sounds like you're giving the feedback the students need.

[Morden]

I echo many of the suggestions already provided: holistic rubrics; earning points rather than losing points (otherwise the blank sheet of paper would be perfect); etc.
A couple additional thoughts/suggestions:
1) When they complain about their grade, I am very sympathetic but try to refocus the conversation on them and what they can do. Ex. Oh, you're disappointed with the grade because you are used to getting better marks. I can see how that would be disappointing. And you're right, program X is very competitive. So what specific steps can you take to improve performance on the next assignment?
2) As assistant chair, I had to review a lot of teaching evaluations. The ones that concerned me the most were the ones where there were no complaints about marking too hard, too much work, etc. You have to expect that some people will be unhappy. Of course, I would have also been very concerned if there were a lot of comments about the instructor belittling students, etc.

[fishbrains]

I mark all the errors, but then go back and highlight the major error patterns I want them to work on. This shows them the "big" problems within the essay in color, but it also shows them there's more to work on after that. This way, they tend not to not be quite so overwhelmed by too much feedback. I find this very helpful with online grading where, visually, all the feedback tends to look like it carries the same weight.

If an essay is totally incompetent, I won't grade it. I might mark the first paragraph or two and then give it back to them for revision (and maybe send them to the writing lab). This is actually a very unusual step, but it happens.

[ciao_yall]

Also, compliment them on things they did well.

And, make sure your comments are constructive - not "this needs work" but "develop your ideas more thoroughly."

Yes, rubrics and clear directions are your friends.

[onthefringe]

Per a question above, while there's not a pedagogical reason not to hurt their feelings, I think there is some evidence that students can only usefully integrate so much feedback. When fringehusband was teaching writing he used a combination approach — there was a holistic rubric that had indications about how close students were to meeting expectations in a variety of categories. Then he gave one or two pieces of developmental feedback that he thought would lead to the most improvement if the student incorporated them in future assignments. Many students seemed to be able to understand that the bunch of low rubric scores had an impact on their grade, and could cope with a couple of their biggest areas for improvement being detailed.

[AvidReader]

There are a lot of ways to structure rubrics (and there is a rubric thread here: http://thefora.org/index.php?topic=1983.0).

When I grade (humanities), I do something like fringehusband does: identify the best part(s) of the paper and 2-4 areas for improvement, arranged in order of importance and tagged to match (e.g. "The biggest weakness of this paper is . . .")

You mention that rubrics make students flunk. I personally prefer more holistic rubrics (e.g. "An A paper will . . ."), but if you prefer rubrics that apply numbers to set tasks (e.g "excellent thesis statement 5 points, adequate 4 points, weak 3 points"), you might consider juggling the points a little: in my example above, 4/5 points is just barely a "B" on a 10-point scale. Might an "adequate" thesis be worth 4.5 points instead, or could an area where your students start weak be worth fewer points on the early essays? I also usually curve the calculated grade on these rubrics to the nearest + - or letter grade. You can set your own marks, but in my book, anything below 50 gets rounded up to the nearest multiple of 10; 50-69 round up to the nearest multiple of 5; and in each passing range, I round up to x2, x5, x8 (e.g. 70&71=72 and 79-81=82).

With respect to the last part of your post, are you teaching gen ed courses that have other sections available, or courses of your own design? Whenever possible, I try to frame requirements in terms of the course's goals or eventual professional norms. Are peer-reviewed secondary sources part of the course's goals? Will they be important for students who go on to upper-level courses? Is attention to detail and learning to follow a given format important for professionals in your field or related fields, even if the mechanics of citations are not? If so, tell your students that their future grant applications could be rejected if they fail to follow citation and formatting guidelines.

Also, when they come to discuss grades, I try to focus the discussion on things they can do on the next assignment rather than defending their grade. "You lost 5 points for not having a peer-reviewed source. You will need that on the next 3 assignments also. Do you know how to check whether something is peer-reviewed? How did you search for your sources on this paper?" --and then help them plan how they will fix the error on the next project.

AR.