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Graduate Assistant wanting to resign TA duties

Started by kerprof, October 27, 2021, 06:35:12 PM

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Puget

Quote from: kerprof on December 04, 2021, 09:09:54 AM
I have got an appointment to meet with the PhD program director on Monday. I had chat with my wife in regards to this and she strongly suggests, If anything I should only bring up the student's performance issue rather than pregnancy issue. If I bring up pregnancy issue, my wife suggests that I will be the one who will get into the trouble. Please advise how I should structure my conversation with the PhD program director.

If the student is planning to go on maternity leave than you have to talk about this, but the *student* is the one who needs to disclose this to the program director, not you. You should all meet together and discuss this.
"Never get separated from your lunch. Never get separated from your friends. Never climb up anything you can't climb down."
–Best Colorado Peak Hikes

Ruralguy

I second that. Include her in on the meeting. She can mention her pregnancy if she so chooses (and if she wants any kind of accommodation, she needs to).

kerprof

#32
Quote from: Puget on December 04, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
Quote from: kerprof on December 04, 2021, 09:09:54 AM
I have got an appointment to meet with the PhD program director on Monday. I had chat with my wife in regards to this and she strongly suggests, If anything I should only bring up the student's performance issue rather than pregnancy issue. If I bring up pregnancy issue, my wife suggests that I will be the one who will get into the trouble. Please advise how I should structure my conversation with the PhD program director.

If the student is planning to go on maternity leave than you have to talk about this, but the *student* is the one who needs to disclose this to the program director, not you. You should all meet together and discuss this.

The student did not mention anything about maternity leave. All she mentioned is when I told her that I would like to have her work  during the summer as RA, she mentioned that the the due  date for delivery is during the Summer and that she could not work in Summer. If not for this conversation, I would not have known that she is pregnant.

Then the student opened up saying she does not need any RA/TA work and just need tuition support.

I presume that she plan to use Summer as a maternity leave. Anyways she does not have any course work left and based on what she did for research during 2021, I think she will treat the whole 2022 as leave and deliver as she wishes.

kerprof

#33
Quote from: Ruralguy on December 04, 2021, 10:21:16 AM
I second that. Include her in on the meeting. She can mention her pregnancy if she so chooses (and if she wants any kind of accommodation, she needs to).

I am considering not to provide any assistantship (tuition or stipend) for Spring 2022, given her productivity and attitude issues in 2021. At the same time I am not sure on the implications of going ahead with this approach. So, I am not sure how I can include her in my conversation with the program director.

waterboy

If this were at my R1, we couldn't provide tuition support without an RA or TA attached. Not allowed.
"I know you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure that what you heard was not what I meant."

Golazo

You should treat the student the same way you would if you did not know she was pregnant--ie, if you had a way to provide a tuition waiver and you would have done so, than you should do the same thing. If this is not allowed, that's a different story. If you have not clearly documented problems it will seem like you are punishing the student because of your pregnancy, and so unless you have documented performance problems, I don't think you should cut the student off from support. Now if you can't provide something that the student wants, this is a different story.

ciao_yall

Quote from: Golazo on December 05, 2021, 09:43:16 AM
You should treat the student the same way you would if you did not know she was pregnant--ie, if you had a way to provide a tuition waiver and you would have done so, than you should do the same thing. If this is not allowed, that's a different story. If you have not clearly documented problems it will seem like you are punishing the student because of your pregnancy, and so unless you have documented performance problems, I don't think you should cut the student off from support. Now if you can't provide something that the student wants, this is a different story.

That said, some of her performance issues may be related to her being constantly tired and having morning sickness.

Treat her pregnancy as if it were a guy with a broken leg. What symptoms and performance would you be able to accept if he were having surgery, on painkillers, etc?

Parasaurolophus

Yeah, my partner was basically unable to function for 6/9 months when she was pregnant--they call it 'morning' sickness, but the nausea lasted all day and all night, every day and every night.
I know it's a genus.

Ruralguy

Sure, but you can't assume that this student has those issues and then make drastic conclusions somewhat based on that. The potential physical and mental manifestations of pregnancy are many, but that doesn't really mean you can assume she has *any* of them.

It seems wise to go ahead and have that conversation with the higher up. If you can't really have the student there, then don't.

Avoid discussing the pregnancy, especially, as others have said, if you have not writing down the issues with performance (because, yes, without
written evidence, this *might* look like pregnancy based discrimination). It really just seems that she (the student) is the one who needs to bring the pregnancy up.

Is there a student leave policy? It seems like you may want to invoke that, rather than officially pulling TA or RA money.

Hibush

Get the DGS involved no matter what else! I can't emphasize that enough. It is their job to make sure you don't do something stupid that will come back to bite everyone. It is also their job to figure out if there are good resources or policies at the school to help improve the situation.

The US does not have parental leave figured out in general, and for graduate students in particular. That is only one of the ways that pregnancy and parenthood differ from a broken leg. Despite that lack of structure, graduate programs and advisors have to have a plan for grad students who have children. It may be invoked rarely, but when it is, everyone should be able to adjust in a way that is somewhat realistic about time, effort and money.

NCSU has a policy that was created specifically for international students who need to maintain full-time status as a condition of their visa, but strikes me as unrealistic about the progress the student will be able to make.

Discrimination against pregnant students has a long history, and Title IX is really explicity about it. Here is BYU's guidance , written with good clarity. As others have emphasized, this is the kind of thing OP has to be super attentive to.

What is a good way to facilitate grad students who are in their prime years to start a family?


research_prof

#40
OP, just keep in mind that the director of the PhD program will always try to find solutions that ensure the best for the program (not for you or your research). In the eyes of the director, the best for the program might be that you continue to supervise and support a student that is not performing until the student somehow graduates.

I personally give a few (written) notices when students do not perform as expected. If students continue not to perform, I do not renew funding support. The situation you are facing is more complicated because of the pregnancy issue--you should suggest to the student that they take a leave of absence. This will give you time to think about what you would like to do with the student. When the student comes back, you can simply say that you do not have enough funding to support or enough time to supervise (if you do not want to work with the student anymore). In my program at least, students will never be blamed for doing anything wrong--the faculty will always be in trouble. If that's the case in your program as well, you should let the student go in a very diplomatic way.

PS: If the student does not want to take a leave of absence, but you would like to eventually make that happen, reporting to HR that the student is pregnant will make it happen I guess.

Ruralguy

I suggest any and all actions be in collaboration with the DGS at this point. It seems that dismissing someone after leave can be seen as terribly passive aggressive at best and horribly discriminatory at worst.  Try now to record all past examples of poor performance and your corresponding action. Discuss this with DGS and try to come up with a plan. I am still not sure how bring up the pregnancy, but I am fairly adamant of it being initiated by the student who is pregnant, not by a call to HR, which strikes me as invasive, and I sure hope they'd ask you to please have the student call them personally regarding such information.  In any case, HR would probably only be involved if there is any suspension of pay during leave, but I highly doubt they'd be involved in any decisions about the  nature of the leave regarding anyone who is designated as a student.

kerprof

#42
Quote from: Golazo on December 05, 2021, 09:43:16 AM
You should treat the student the same way you would if you did not know she was pregnant--ie, if you had a way to provide a tuition waiver and you would have done so, than you should do the same thing. If this is not allowed, that's a different story. If you have not clearly documented problems it will seem like you are punishing the student because of your pregnancy, and so unless you have documented performance problems, I don't think you should cut the student off from support. Now if you can't provide something that the student wants, this is a different story.

This point makes sense as well.   

Student is requesting only the instate tuition support (basically one-third of what we pay in terms of Tuition + Stipend for a typical PhD student) and I am also paying this off from my start up fund rather than grant based fund.  Moreover, the student does not have any course work or TA work that she was doing in Spring 2021 and Fall 2021. So she may do better Research in Spring 2022 compared to last two semesters. Maybe I just need to lower my expectations and see what comes out in Spring 2022 and Fall 2022. However, at the same time treat as if I dont know there is a pregnancy situation and document if the student has attitude issues and does not deliver what she promises.

However, I need to confirm from the University, if it is OK to just pay for the tuition support instead of RA/TA stipend support + Tuition support.



mleok

Quote from: kerprof on December 05, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Golazo on December 05, 2021, 09:43:16 AM
You should treat the student the same way you would if you did not know she was pregnant--ie, if you had a way to provide a tuition waiver and you would have done so, than you should do the same thing. If this is not allowed, that's a different story. If you have not clearly documented problems it will seem like you are punishing the student because of your pregnancy, and so unless you have documented performance problems, I don't think you should cut the student off from support. Now if you can't provide something that the student wants, this is a different story.

This point makes sense as well.   

Student is requesting only the instate tuition support (basically one-third of what we pay in terms of Tuition + Stipend for a typical PhD student) and I am also paying this off from my start up fund rather than grant based fund.  Moreover, the student does not have any course work or TA work that she was doing in Spring 2021 and Fall 2021. So she may do better in Research in Spring 2022 compared to last two semesters. Maybe I just need to lower my expectations and see what comes out in Spring 2022 and Fall 2022. However, at the same time treat as if I dont know there is a pregnancy situation and document if the student has attitude issues and does not deliver what she promises.

However, I need to confirm from the University, if it is OK to just pay for the tuition support instead of RA/TA stipend support + Tuition support.

Seems like a poor use of your startup funds to me, but it's your startup.

theteacher

I see a TT assistant professor building their grave (i.e., tenure denial).
My advice is to suck it up with this student, then reflect and learn for your future recruitment. What went wrong? How to avoid it? Etc.
Talking publicly about it (with other senior colleagues and program directors) will create an image of a poor supervisor. In addition, it will be material for gossiping among your colleagues and other students.
Always present (or sell) yourself as a caring mentor and express worries (when needed) about your students and their development. Otherwise, people will see you as a naive assistant professor who lacks experience and exposes their students (you know the difference in power argument). This won't be good for your promotion case.