Do you ever keep student papers?

[Caracal]

I have students submit everything on the LMS and I download papers to read and comment on them. I don't delete them just in case there's some reason I need them, so I do have them somewhere.

That said, I would only be looking at some student's past papers if I was writing a rec letter for grad school for them or there was some very specific reason. So, yeah, it is weird. By itself, it isn't really something to report to anyone. However, it sounds like this is all connected to a pattern of concerning behavior with this student. If people think something is weird it probably is. Maintaining appropriate boundaries with students isn't difficult when professors want those boundaries to exist. You can have friendly relationships with students. You can have students you like a lot. You can have students who you mentor extensively. But those relationships need to be professional in nature.

So, I guess it depends what you've heard and seen but I think maybe you should file a report to the title ix office.

[Golazo]

...You can have students you like a lot. You can have students who you mentor extensively. But those relationships need to be professional in nature.

So, I guess it depends what you've heard and seen but I think maybe you should file a report to the title ix office.

I think Caracel is right that student/professor relationships need to professional. I'm not sure, based on what is presented here, what evidence can actually be presented that this is not the case besides a professor keeping papers of a particular student, which doesn't seem actionable. I would think there would be something else (are the individuals spending an unusual amount of time together in places that don't make sense?)

Since the OP mentioned that he is close with the professor, it might be worth remarking to hu something to the effect of "I notice you are spending a lot of time with X, what are you working on." Prehaps one of other profs in the department can check in with the student. And then you will have more of basis.

But if you made a Title X claim on the basis of just the papers, it would seriously questions about professionalism of the claimant.

[Ruralguy]

Of course there would be no TIX case based on papers, but the OP already has said there was more. The reason I suggested a handoff is because it sounds like you would all have to investigate this anyway, which is part of what TIX does, if they have a case. But without a respondent  there'd be no TIX case anyway, but that's where it's important to know your schools rules on this sort of thing. If there are rules regarding student and faculty relationships, then it doesn't have to be a Title IX issue, just sexual misconduct particular to your school. In any case, it may be time to hand this over to some one of authority who can deal  with it discreetly. What you don't want is six different faculty members asking him different sorts of questions about this relationship.

[mamselle]

Or maybe you do...bit of potential consciousness-raising, that.

(I know, I know. But he'd get the point that objective issues might exist.)

M.

[Ruralguy]

I don't think so. I mean I see your point, but then no one person really knows much besides what he told them, so the rest gets filled in by gossip. I don't think that's the way to go. We had something like this a few years ago. The Dean confronted this person. They said it must be an understanding. Then this person suddenly quit our tenured position for a non TT elsewhere, but nearby.  Now, could be they were pissed off over an unjustified investigation, but I think not.

[Caracal]

I don't think so. I mean I see your point, but then no one person really knows much besides what he told them, so the rest gets filled in by gossip. I don't think that's the way to go. We had something like this a few years ago. The Dean confronted this person. They said it must be an understanding. Then this person suddenly quit our tenured position for a non TT elsewhere, but nearby.  Now, could be they were pissed off over an unjustified investigation, but I think not.

I'm always perplexed by this stuff. I've taught students who I liked a lot. I have had students who I enjoyed discussing work and even chatting with. I have never been in a meeting with a student and thought "you know what would be great?  if we could really take this outside the office and start spending more and more time together and maybe we could start dating." I really, really have no desire to hang out a lot with 18-23 year olds outside of work. I occasionally have students who I think that I would have been friends with if we were in college together. I wouldn't want to hang out with them now because hanging out with college kids in an unstructured way sounds excruciating. 

Yeah, yeah, I know that these people are usually creeps who want to find vulnerable people who are impressed by them and will have sex with them, but its still hard to really understand. Is it just deep emotional immaturity that makes this appealing?

[marshwiggle]

Yeah, yeah, I know that these people are usually creeps who want to find vulnerable people who are impressed by them and will have sex with them, but its still hard to really understand. Is it just deep emotional immaturity that makes this appealing?

I think there are at least a couple of motivations that are pretty common.

• Mentor complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student makes a person consider him/herself to be able to open this student's eyes to the universe.
• Nostalgia complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student reminds a person of him/herself in younger days and creates a desire to pretend one is still that person.

Both of these are based on an appeal to the ego, where the sexual component just adds to the appeal.

[Sun_Worshiper]

I think we are supposed to hold onto them for a year just in case (and nowdays everything is submitted through Canvas so I do have the record forever), but honestly I don't think I've ever so much as glanced at a paper again after it was graded. That said, I can understand keeping a few good ones around to share as examples of A-level work.

[Ruralguy]

Our accrediting body asks us to show examples of work, but that's not reason to save a particular person's work unless its exemplary.

I think if the right person were to ask a couple of questions of the professor and the student they could probably figure out quickly whether its:
1. a bunch of bs
2. on verge of becoming something, but isn't
3. already embroiled

[AvidReader]

I return hard copies of student papers. Digital copies are available for both me and the student online. I have occasionally downloaded copies of online papers for (for instance) samples for other students, my teaching portfolio, or when writing recommendation letters.

Is the student about to graduate? I initially agreed with jerseyjay:

I would think it more likely that he is keeping the material in order to write a letter of recommendation or something that requires referring to old papers.  (When I write letters for students, especially those who want to go to grad school, I do ask to see old papers if they have them. It makes the letter more specific to be able to refer to these.)

And yet

From experience, the spidey sense regarding inappropriate relationships between faculty and students is often spot on. The spidey sense wouldn't be enough for me to go to Title IX.

I hope you find resolution, OP.

AR.

[Caracal]

Yeah, yeah, I know that these people are usually creeps who want to find vulnerable people who are impressed by them and will have sex with them, but its still hard to really understand. Is it just deep emotional immaturity that makes this appealing?

I think there are at least a couple of motivations that are pretty common.

• Mentor complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student makes a person consider him/herself to be able to open this student's eyes to the universe.
• Nostalgia complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student reminds a person of him/herself in younger days and creates a desire to pretend one is still that person.

Both of these are based on an appeal to the ego, where the sexual component just adds to the appeal.

You're probably right, but do other people have fonder memories of being 21? Not an age I'd like to return to.

[apl68]

Yeah, yeah, I know that these people are usually creeps who want to find vulnerable people who are impressed by them and will have sex with them, but its still hard to really understand. Is it just deep emotional immaturity that makes this appealing?

I think there are at least a couple of motivations that are pretty common.

• Mentor complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student makes a person consider him/herself to be able to open this student's eyes to the universe.
• Nostalgia complex - seeing some bright, enthusiastic student reminds a person of him/herself in younger days and creates a desire to pretend one is still that person.

Both of these are based on an appeal to the ego, where the sexual component just adds to the appeal.

You're probably right, but do other people have fonder memories of being 21? Not an age I'd like to return to.

I've only seen one example of a prof-student romance.  A very young prof at Alma Mater started dating one of my classmates--AFTER she was done taking his classes.  Evidently he was a perfect gentleman.  They married after she graduated, and last I heard still were.

[Ruralguy]

My college now bans any relationship between any staff/faculty and students.

If someone violates this and then later continues the relationship until their deaths,well, safe to say it's out of our purview at that point.

[downer]

As far as I know, none of the schools I teach at has any policies about faculty student relationships beyond state and federal regulations. If they do, they certainly don't advertise them or tell faculty about them.

I wonder what proportion of schools have specific policies on these matters.

[Ruralguy]

Don't be so sure many don't....I've seen it more In PUI handbooks.